Why can't people trade in a decent way?

Hi all,
I apologise if this is a bit of a rant, but I seem to have had bad luck recently.
First there was the mag drill. The guy has stopped responding to my
e-mails. It was significantly not as described, so I can't see why I should lose money over it, but it looks like I will. If I file a claim with eBay or PayPal, it seems that should the seller offer a refund I'll have to ship it back to Germany at my expense (total loss about 45). I'm not even sure of the eligibility of the item, because I did receive it and although I paid by PayPal, the seller didn't list PayPal in the item description. I am hoping the seller might agree to a partial refund (hopefully 50%) but if not I may try to initiate a chargeback. If I initiate a chargeback, am I obliged to return the drill or can I tell the seller to arrange for a courier to pick it up? Anyone know?
Second, I shipped a hoist which I sold on eBay using Parcel2Go.com. The buyer gave me his address, I checked the address using the Royal Mail address database and shipped the package. Ten days later it arrives back on my doorstep with a sticker attached saying "check address". I check again with the buyer, who confirms that the address is correct and that he received no deliveries or "we missed you" note, and again with the address database. Furthermore, it turns out that the address is on the main street of the town in question. So I phone Parcel2Go.com and explain that I've checked the address, found it to be correct, and politely request that they pick up the parcel and deliver it. "We can, but we'll have to take another payment" says the person on the other end of the phone. I point out that this makes no sense, as it's their fault and I have already paid them to deliver the parcel. No progress. After 20 minutes I get the speak to the manager, who I could almost believe was the same person from their attitude. Manager says the same, but has added arrogance. She suggests that I should've tracked the parcel online and called them when it stopped in the depot for a few days. I explain that I pay them to deliver parcels, so it is their responsibility to deliver them, and also that they could've phoned me to explain the problem as I gave them my number. No progress. I then politely explain that I don't intend to do business with them again unless they sort the problem out. The manager then suggests that my business isn't very important to them as I only spend about 40 a month, then rapidly tries to backtrack when I challenge her. Eventually she puts the phone down on me. I rarely encounter companies with such arrogance and a lack of interest in their failings. Never use them. They deserve a payback. Any ideas?
Sorry for the rant!
Chris
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Move to the USA where everything is fair and honest and all people live in harmony, love and trust! We will welcome you with open arms and a plate of homemade cookies.
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Tom Gardner wrote:
<snip>

Tom, from what I experienced when I spent a summer as a student in New England, I'd be glad to. The scum level there seemed to be exceptionally low.
Chris
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Christopher Tidy wrote:

You didn't look hard enough.
The places I've been outside of the states seem to have the same mix as here. College towns generally hide their scum better. They're full of earnest young students who's parents won't want them there spending money if the scum is too visible; if that's where you were perhaps you didn't get a balanced view.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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I can also give him a starter box of gun cartridges and some paper targets...
i
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:50:28 GMT, Ignoramus12137

I could dig around in the "misc" section of the collection, and perhaps supply something to fire them through.......
Ive got a Russel Sting, and a 3030 waiting for a fellow..retired army..just outside of..well..in the UK..who keeps claiming to want to move to Kansas, that Im holding for the day he actually gets off his arse and does it. Gratis of course.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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I've lived in Kansas for 2 years and now live in the UK, I can understand his indecision. Reminds of the comment in Superman 2 by Lex Luther, about dropping the bomb on Wichita but nobody would have noticed for a couple of years so not much point.
Gunner Asch wrote:

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Who's this "We", white man?
Open arms? Maybe. My cookies? Right after an army of monkeys fly outta my butt and build me a full-size replica of the Taj Mahal out of solid gold behind the shop! :)
--
Don Bruder - snipped-for-privacy@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
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Don Bruder wrote:

No, Don! In that case, put me some pics of the assmonkey-carved Taj Mahal in the drop box instead. That's one project I want to see.
Luckily we've sorted out the parcel problem. More than an hour of phone calls by chance put us through to a manager who had his head screwed on the right way, who agreed to fix the situation. So they're coming to pick it up on Wednesday. I just hope they do come. So that one looks like it's sorted, which makes me feel a bit better!
Thanks for the advice about tackling the mag drill situation. I'm going to wait a day or two longer before pursuing the situation via PayPal or the bank. I am inclined to deal with the bank as PayPal's procedures look rather complicated and are inconveniently explained on about five similar-but-different pages scattered around their website. And PayPal are owned by eBay, which means no customer service :-(. If it wasn't for the fact that eBay is the only major source for some technical items I might well stop using them altogether. Their system does a lot to protect bad sellers, through the mutual feedback system, their lack of customer service, their refusal to provide street addresses for sellers, and PayPal's poor protection if you make a payment from your PayPal balance. Probably Steve B will come along and say something nice about eBay, but right now I think there are quite a few dissatisfied buyers out there. One day a better service will come along and kick eBay's butt, and I won't shed a tear.
Tomorrow I might be less sore. Thanks for listening, folks.
Chris
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Well, we'll send you the cookies anyway!

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Tom Gardner wrote:

Yeah! And if they don't play nice, we can shoot them.!
(Hey, you started it!) <G>
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--
Best Regards,
Keith Marshall
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Oops, wrong button last time. Let's try this again...

I don't believe it will matter that the guy didn't list PayPal as an option. He accepted payment via PayPal and is obviously a member. From what I've heard PayPal is usually much more in favor of making the buyer happy than the seller.
According to their site you may be required to return the merchandise at your expense but they don't say when or why. I assume that it will be negotiated between you and the seller via PayPal but remember that PayPal can freeze his account so they have a lot more leverage that you do alone. Even if he isn't responding to your emails he'll probably reply to theirs.
If you prefer a 50% refund over having to pay for return postage (I probably would too in your case) I would imagine you can suggest that but I'm really not sure because I haven't needed to issue a PayPal complaint before, nor have I had one issued against me.
Here's a link to their page about filing a claim:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc 91&loc74&unique_ida645&source_page=_home&flow They call it a "not as described" claim. There's a link there to a step-by-step tutorial but you won't be able to view it without logging into PayPal. It basically lists these steps:
1. Identify issue 2. Enter claim details 3. Seller responds to claim 4. Review seller's response 5. Claim is resolved
Good luck!
Best Regards, Keith Marshall snipped-for-privacy@progressivelogic.com
"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"
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Paypal required me to send back bootleg DVD's -- home made, worth maybe a dollar at most -- by traceable carrier, So it cost me $ 3.13 (the seller sent them both for 55 cents). It doesn't make sense to send worthless merchandise back for more than its worth but it will probably be required to get the refund.
You might be able to ship back at the expense of the seller if you dispute the transaction directly with the credit card company, but since it's a Paypal transaction, they'll almost certainly have you go through that grievance procedure first. They may compensate you for the balance of your loss afterwards.
Keith Marshall wrote:

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Mike, They may have done this to catch the bootleggers. By having someone send the items back on a traceable carrier they make someone sign for it. Then they knock on the door and ask for that person.
-
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Keith Marshall wrote:

I filed a complaint with PayPal and part of the process was to enter an amount I wanted as adjustment. I.e., it is not an all-or-nothing, where you are just requesting a reversal. In my case, I *really* did not want to ship it back, so I asked for a partial refund. Much to my astonishment, I got it!! This was a low feedback seller who did not have anything to lose by blowing me off, but he paid what I asked. Made me wonder if PayPal had some kind of leverage that I wasn't aware of.
Bob
PS - resold the item on eBay, being honest in its description, and came out $5 ahead, net. Not worth the aggravation, but not a loss either.
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Christopher Tidy wrote:

Did you get her name? Call _her_ manager and politely explain why they lost your business. If they're like UPS they probably do a significant amount of business with small places like you; if they've found a way of pissing all of you off that would be a bad thing that they would need to recognize.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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One tip I've heard is to pay by check. If you mail a check to them and they screw you, then it easily becomes mail fraud. Then you can get the feds get involved. That might only work across state lines and within the USA, though.
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:23:02 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy

"The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 requires a supplier of a service acting in the course of business in England, Wales and Northern Ireland to carry out that service with reasonable care and skill and, unless agreed to the contrary, within a reasonable time and make no more than a reasonable charge."
Demand a full refund or delivery to the stated address for the already paid fee. When you don't get either take the matter to the trading standards office. That's what they are there for.
Mark Rand RTFM
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:23:02 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy

Can you assemble a simple incindeary device?
Scratch that....do you own a cricket bat and some stalking skills?
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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