Wish Me Luck !

Thanks , Spehro . I'm basing my pitch on price , quality , and custom sizing . Most of the vendors here are selling a "stock" item , that's adjustable for width . That's one more weak spot ... they can be unbolted and yanked loose in two pieces . My aim is to make a unit sized for the customer's window , bolted/screwed into the house framing - not the window trim . I'll also need to design a unit that can be opened from inside easily without compromising security , like for kid's rooms . AC surrounds will need to be removeable for servicing and replacement , but I've already got that one figgered out . Customer will need to supply the padlock ... None of this stuff , mine or anyone else's , will stop a determined professional . If they want in , they're gonna get in . My aim is to make it difficult enough that they'll look for easier pickin's . Most thieves are basically lazy , else they'd be workin' ...

Reply to
Terry Coombs
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My reply-to is good , but there might be others that can profit from your insights too ...

I do need to check with local FD rules , I'm sure there are circumstances where I'll need a means to open from inside - without compromising security . For a start , though , I've got a couple of AC surrounds to bid . Condenser and window unit theft is a major problem here . That might turn out to be enough business to keep this going ...

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Good luck!

If your e mail addy is good, I can send you a few basics on the major things to watch for, or post them here.

BTDT. Check for the local fire laws on releases, and where they are required. You can get in a boatload of trouble for that. All the rest of the stuff is small stuff you can solve or negotiate. If some gets fried to a crisp, you'll be neck deep in it, and the FD investigators and insurance agents will be crawling in your front yard at first light.

I did what you did when I left the hotel. Never looked back. Had my contractor's license in two months. There's a lot of advice here, so ask as you go along. Dance within the lines and be safe.

Reply to
SteveB

Karl, you are probably correct about the insurance, except he will need a contractors license if he does the actual installation and that will require insurance to provide the bonding.

Paul

I got some good advice when I was stressing over getting licensed. I got the licenses for my city and the neighboring larger one, but wanted a contractor's license. A friend said to wait until I got that much business, then get it, but be studying in the meantime. That's what I did.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Do some homework. Who is your competition? What's the market?

If you have a lot of guys doing this where you are at, but not doing it well, that's a good thing. Like you said, if you can beat their prices, do it, but you don't have to do it by much. Example, if they charge $200, and you can make money at $100, charge $150 and don't walk away from the $50. Don't do free work for anyone. Charge what it's worth, and I'd start with a $50 minimum and a $75 hourly rate. I said start, because you can always negotiate. Just don't come down too far or you might as well take a nap or go fishing. No sense to work all day for gas and supplies.

Look at the market around you. Go ask businesses, apartment projects, property management companies, shopping centers, etc, if they are happy with their present providers. I got one property management company that put me in business with seven apartment projects and when I sold out, I had 275. Most all of them said the welders did a crappy job if they showed up at all, and charged $300 for an hours work. Treat them square and you'll keep them.

Stick with the "gravy work." Those are quick easy good paying jobs. Particularly cash. I could make more money fixing some gate that some poor welder cobbed together than I could by making the whole gate. There's a need for portable repair, particularly now when people want to repair instead of replace. If you have to spend time figuring out and designing a solution, charge for that, too. If they knew how to do it, they would hand you the plans. That also is worth money, so don't give it away.

Barter when you can. Sometimes you get twice the value than what you would get in money. I have fixed those cart return rails for many a shopping center, and those managers hand out those gift certs pretty loosely, and they're just like cash. Mom likes them, too.

If you trade work, do it full retail for full retail.

Don't fall for the carrot and donkey trick. "I got more work for you if you will do this job at a cut rate." Negotiate each job like you will never sell that customer again. Most of those guys never come back with the "good" or "big" work.

Keep your truck stocked. Going to the hardware store or welding supplier will blow a four hour no profit hole in your day. Alarm your truck.

Employees are the kiss of death. Do everything you can by yourself, and stay a one man operation as long as you can.

Use proposal sheets. They help you remember what you quoted for a job. If the guy is a real pain, put a star on your copy, and know to refuse to do the work, or that this guy is going to be a pain in the nuts. If they complain about the price, they will pick you apart on everything else. Careful about this until you understand the rules about contracting. You may have to offer to do the work for $$ per hour, but when you quote a fixed price, it goes from handyman classification to contract (offer and acceptance) and you may need the license for that.

I'd save the money and get the contractor's license anyway, as the jobs you can snag will pay for it quickly. It lets you run with bigger dogs.

GET DEPOSITS on custom work. I got 50/50.

Avoid the urge for nice new shiny trucks. Poor boy it. Used trucks and used welders perform nearly as well as new ones. Fully paid for ones seem to run even better. To customers new shiny expensive means this guy is going to charge a lot. Look good, and get some shirts from work clothes suppliers with company name and yours on it.

Get right and stay right with the authorities. Start out with small licenses, like handyman for your city. Post your sales tax bond, and learn how to pay the least on there. In some states, labor is not taxable, or you can just pay use tax up front, and not have to break the sales down at the end of the month. Your contractor's license will present itself. If you are turning down work because you don't have one, get one. If you're just doing hourly handyman work, don't get one.

GET WORKERS COMP. You can somewhat manipulate the money you pay yourself, and that will be in the 10% range, a lot. But have your wife work as a secretary, her rate will be 1/20th of yours because she isn't exposed to anything more than a paper cut. Save$ $$. It is really cheap insurance on you, and if you have a helper, it can save your bacon if he gets hurt. Some jobs won't let you on property without it. It will open the doors to the vault.

This is a lot, and it's a sequence, and not things to be done all at once. First thing is to get ringing the cash register, pass out some cheap cards, investigate the market and competition, go ask about licenses telling them "you're thinking of doing this" and not actually doing it. Usually city licenses are fairly cheap. State Contractors Boards USUALLY will let you off with a warning or two, but check your state. I got a steel erection contractor's license, and only had to take the office management part of the test. NOT ONE question of welding, nor did I have to provide certs! Had them, though.

I'm ready to hook up the old SA200 and try to go out and find some work, too. But you just have to be selective, or else you have to go full boat and get all the licenses and stuff. Don't forget that you can pick up and deliver, and not have to have the on job exposure that site production involves.

HTH

You can do it. Just try to do it within the lines so some gummint geek doesn't trip you up.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

First Good luck in your start-up If you provide a good quality product, show up and get the job done, you won't have to worry about being the low bid.

About bars and releases, ck with your building dept or whatever entity issues permits and inspects the work. You need to know what building code is adopted in the places you want to work. Some states have a prevailing code and then the cities add to it or have a security code of their own. Next talk to an inspector and get his/her take on it, local interpretation is generally the final word. Some places the bars don't need a interior release unless they protect an Egress. The number& dimensions of and egress can be affected by several factors like: # of stories, distance from grade,# of apts in building and what type of fire protective systems are in place like hard wired smoke systems & sprinklers. The idea that you have to have 2 ways out of every room or apt sounds good but is not true. Unless the fire dept does inspections they may not know the correct answer. No firefighter likes window bars because they block a way for us to get out, but that doesn't mean that you can't have them. Another good source of info is Nomma, there used to be a section on their web site that delt with code issues.

Good luck

Andrew

Reply to
AndrewV

I've heard that before - because it's true . Might have ot let a few go a bit cheaper to get the word out though . A happy customer can be the best advertising you can get .

More good advice , thank you !

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Sawsall though an exterior wall. You are in. My 18v ryobi saw could do the job. I'm sure DeWalt makes something much nicer.

But if the bars make them feel safer, which to some degree it does, more the merrier.

Wes

Reply to
Wes

And remeber, SSI is really 12.4% and not the 6.2 % you see on your payroll check stub.

John

Reply to
john

Ohhh , yeah ! I know it's double , been in business before . There's an awful lot about being in business for yourself that the general public just doesn't know about . And I think you might have the withholding percentages wrong - though I haven't checked , and I know that since I was last in business they have changed the structure of SSI and medicaid/medicare withholding . I wish they'd passed legislation that would let me handle that myself . I trust me a hell of a lot more than I trust "them" . Been putting 6%+ away over and above SSI for several years now .

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Most of the perps around here wouldn't know which end of a Sawzall to hold - hell , they don't even know how to hold a handgun ! Professional thieves , on the other hand , are an entirely different matter . If they want in , they're gonna get in . Best ya can do is slow 'em down .

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Run a couple 220 volt wires through the wall where they would cut with the sawzall and you MIGHT stop them cold on the front step.

Reply to
clare

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:37:15 -0500, the infamous Wes scrawled the following:

Yeah, I've heard a few years ago that a 4" cordless chainsaw was one of the newest tools of the break-in trade, used where they don't worry about making noise. "Guard dogs" are one snack or round away from quiet, and barbed wire is hopped in 3 seconds by tossing a blanket or jacket on top. Add the "popping" trade (smack the lock pick with a small hammer and it instantly opens any keyed lock) has made ALL locks insecure, though medium length pry bars can open most front or back doors in an instant, then can be used to break most door chains.

Backing a pickup into a house to open it up has been tried, too. That still works.

Ayup, if someone wants in, there are myriad quick and simple ways.

Right, snag 'em, Snag! Provide the service and product. They -are- out there wanting 'em.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Maybe you should breed ferocious sounding dogs and do bars. ;)

Wes

Reply to
Wes

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:02:24 -0600, the infamous "Terry Coombs" scrawled the following:

I strongly recommend against that, Terry. Once you set a price, discounts seem to be the rule and people will think you're trying to cheat them if your regular price is higher.

BTDT and got bitten for it.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

When the oil boom went bust and a savings and loan scandal broke, rroperty values declined in OKC in the mid 80s.

My neighbor had a set of bars installed on his house as the "hood" invaded our subdivision . I expressed my concerns about fire and he showed me how the bottom "lagbolts" were really just bolt heads welded to the frame and the whole assembly would pivot on the top bolts. This allowed the grating to pivot and the occupants to go out thru the window. I think only the bedrooms were spoofed this way and the other windows had real mounts.

Very clever thinking.

I bought a big loud dog instead.

All the other houses on the street got burglarized, except his and mine.

Mark (Weimaraners Rule, Dude) Dunning

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Reply to
Mark Dunning

Which just goes to show that the *appearance* of security is often enough to deter amateurs ... I got dogs , too . The one that looks like a coyote has quite a rep on the street . They all think the other one is a teddy bear ... heh .

Reply to
Terry Coombs

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:57:21 -0500, the infamous "Mark Dunning" scrawled the following:

Until someone tests it from the outside.

I'll bet your neighbors just _love_ you for that, too. I suffer from "guard dogs" next door and I can tell you that it's no fracking picnic. I hope you trained yours to be quiet unless someone was coming -over- the fence. (Otherwise, see last sentence.)

I even went so far as to buy an ultrasonic collar for their lead barker, gave it to her, and she refused to put it on. I need to go over there and get it back, then put up an industrial duty model in my own yard.

May all loud and untrained dog owners and their pooches rot in Hell, and soon!

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Personally, if I were to make such bars, the four corner bolts would be sleeved through the wall and secured with pins on a rip cord type mechanism. Perfectly secure normally, but pull the rip cord and just push the bars off.

Reply to
Pete C.

Sometimes prices can be too low and prevent sales as well. I once worked with a friend selling stuff at a hamfest, we had a big box of perfect new Belden power cords marked $0.50/ea and they were not selling. We got pissed, marked them up to $1/ea and sold out.

Reply to
Pete C.

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