4 Jaw Independent Chuck - TOS?

The Burnerd chuck with my lathe is probably 30 years old and is still fine. It's clearly led a light life. I'd be tempted to go for a second hand good make as long as tou can look at the thing first - ie Ebay will be a gamble.

charles

All Burnerd's chucks now except the Griptru range are being made by TOS and badged as Burnerd.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-

Rotagrip (0845 100 1566) list TOS, Toolmex and P-B ones. They are on eBay as fordeight, and will send you a printed or CD catalogue.

Toolmex are also listed by MillHill Supplies 01787 472 236.

HTH

In message , jontom snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com writes

DGR Designs list 4" and 5" 4 jaw chucks and Boxford back plates.

Thanks guys, excellent advice and top class information as always. I should have remembered Rotagrip as I have spent some money with them before and also MillHill Supplies who provided a chuck for my speed 10 several years ago. As I hadn't seen a recent advert and their web page is "being updated" I was not sure if they were still trading particularly as they don't appear to be in Crowmarsh any more. DGR Designs is a new one to me but I will now have a look to see what they offer

Interesting pricing strategy in today's' market place, if one works hard to manufacture a good product and establish a "name" for good quality amongst "those in the know", a price premium above the cheapest product of 50% is apparently obtainable (TOS, Toolmex). However, if you can "badge" the same item with a long established widely recognized "name" (P-B) then 100% premium appears to be the order of the day. No wonder we don't make things any more, there is more money and less risk in just re-badging and selling to a poorly informed (or disinterested?) public. I suppose it was always thus.

I had a look at the E-bay seller mentioned but they don't have any independent 4 jaws listed at the moment so I will need to get a Rotagrip catalogue to see what they have. As Charles mentioned I had always viewed buying from E-bay as a potentially risky undertaking; if in fact one is buying new from a well established company then I suppose the risk is reduced. This begs the question why such companies need to hide their real identity. Obviously, there is much about the psychology of buying and selling that I don't understand. More people must be seduced by the "possibility" of getting an auction bargain than share my reservation and preference for "seeing and feeling" before buying.

With all this "smoke and mirrors" about I am taken with Charles suggestion of buying a good quality secondhand item that I can see and touch before parting with my money. I have realized that this tool collecting activity on a limited pot of gold is obviously fraught with danger for a mere novice. After the hash I made of a bit of simple milling last night I might question if it is all worthwhile. Then if it's worth doing ..........

Thanks again for all your help and just to warn you all my next purchase (and likely question) will be some sort of OCTP for the Boxford.

Keith

Thanks guys, excellent advice and top class information as always. I should have remembered Rotagrip as I have spent some money with them before and also MillHill Supplies who provided a chuck for my speed 10 several years ago. As I hadn't seen a recent advert and their web page is "being updated" I was not sure if they were still trading particularly as they don't appear to be in Crowmarsh any more. DGR Designs is a new one to me but I will now have a look to see what they offer

Interesting pricing strategy in today's' market place, if one works hard to manufacture a good product and establish a "name" for good quality amongst "those in the know", a price premium above the cheapest product of 50% is apparently obtainable (TOS, Toolmex). However, if you can "badge" the same item with a long established widely recognized "name" (P-B) then 100% premium appears to be the order of the day. No wonder we don't make things any more, there is more money and less risk in just re-badging and selling to a poorly informed (or disinterested?) public. I suppose it was always thus.

I had a look at the E-bay seller mentioned but they don't have any independent 4 jaws listed at the moment so I will need to get a Rotagrip catalogue to see what they have. As Charles mentioned I had always viewed buying from E-bay as a potentially risky undertaking; if in fact one is buying new from a well established company then I suppose the risk is reduced. This begs the question why such companies need to hide their real identity. Obviously, there is much about the psychology of buying and selling that I don't understand. More people must be seduced by the "possibility" of getting an auction bargain than share my reservation and preference for "seeing and feeling" before buying.

With all this "smoke and mirrors" about I am taken with Charles suggestion of buying a good quality secondhand item that I can see and touch before parting with my money. I have realized that this tool collecting activity on a limited pot of gold is obviously fraught with danger for a mere novice. After the hash I made of a bit of simple milling last night I might question if it is all worthwhile. Then if it's worth doing ..........

Thanks again for all your help and just to warn you all my next purchase (and likely question) will be some sort of OCTP for the Boxford.

Keith

Just because the P-B chucks are made by TOS, or whoever, doesn't mean they are the same product that manufacturer sells under their own name. They might be, but I have my doubts. TOS make decent enough chucks for the price under the TOS brand, but I doubt they're good enough for P-B to pass them off as their own. TOS is actually a collection of different Czech manufacturers, there might even be more than one making chucks!

Cheers Tim

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Tim

Good point, I guess what I am trying to identify is the difference between your categories of "decent enough" and "doubt they're good enough for PB". If I can isolate exactly what I'm paying extra for then I can decide if I need it enough to pay extra for it. Is it better design, better materials, tighter manufacturing tolerances, some additional selection process or is it merely a comfort feeling for me because I bought one of the "best names" (at my price level). In truth, I can hope that it might be a bit of all of these but still suspect that it is mostly due to my final criteria.

The second part of my original question was an attempt to see if anyone using the cheaper import chucks had found them "decent enough" for a novice at home. Unfortunately, those who have bought and must be using these chucks seem reluctant to share their experiences (good or bad) with us. Obviously, either they are all too busy making use of their excellent bargains or not willing to publicly admit to a mistake, but, which one? I had the same lack of response to my question about Chinese lathes a little while ago and find it intriguing. Perhaps in modern life the owning of a piece of equipment is the goal and not actually the using it?

Obviously, if I can find a good quality chuck in good condition for reasonable money secondhand I would be daft to pass it up. If not, and I decide to pay secondhand money for a new chuck what will I get? Something usable or "just what I deserve". I suspect there is no "right" answer to that question and will attempt to placate my fast shrinking wallet by calling my purchase an "investment". I can take consolation in the fact that it will (might) at least be worth something when I have run out of time to use it.

Best regards

Keith

I've just replaced the TOS 3-jaw on my (TOS) lathe with a Bison, the TOS chuck was fine on a good day but one minute would hold a part running true to within a couple of thou, the next minute it might only be ten thou. The Bison is one of their 'precision' chucks and is excellent. To be fair, the TOS had seen quite a bit of service, and I only got the Bison because it came along at the right price. The Bison is much more solidly made, actually a disadvantage in one way in that I could easily lift the TOS (250mm dia) onto the spindle, the same dia Bison is heavier to the point where I think I'll need to build a cradle to sit on the lathe bed, to hold it at the right height, before I do my back in.

I've cleaned up the TOS, drilled 4 holes through the outer rim, and mounted it on my rotary table.

Cheers Tim

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