General Purpose Mig Gases

Historically I've used BOC's Argoshield Light for my MIG welding of
mild steel.
Will I notice, in general use, much difference if I change to CO2?
Bear in mind that firstly my welds are rarely splatter free and
secondly integrity of the welds matters more to me than aesthetics.
Thirdly it's my money that goes into the coffers of BOC
thanks
Charles
Reply to
Charles Ping
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CO2 tends to be a colder weld and has more splatter. What is the price difference between the two?
It tends to pay to shop around. My welding gas from air products is about £22, BOC want £29 and Energas want £12 only problem I have is that Air products is just at the bottom of the road, BOC delivery at £12 or 8 mile trip, Energas 14 mile trip. -- Regards,
John Stevenson Nottingham, England.
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Reply to
John Stevenson
Charles
Hi, not a real welding expert but I have done a fair bit over the (too many!) years. I have used both gases with success but do notice the difference. Argoshield is definitely smoother and less critical on the parameters. If I'm welding thin sheet then CO2 seems to reduce the heat spread and thus gives less distortion. On thick sections however, I feel the weld tends to be a little more brittle with CO2 and it certainly needs more power. I've currently got the bottle filled with the Air Products "general" gas and I must say it seems to be very reasonable all round and cheaper than BOC. That said, I used CO2 with every success for many years and would still use it on those old car bodies.
If you do go to CO2 be careful where you get it, many of the pub bottles now have Nitrogen added and that does not help at all. I used to find the Fire extinguisher people helpful although my local company stopped trading a while ago hence the wad of beer tokens I recently gave to Air Products. In general I think that a lot of people tend to stick with whatever they used for their first successful welds - giving the gas far too much credit for what was really just improving technique. Of course all this depends on what you are welding, if like me it's just general stuff then I don't think the difference in weld quality justifies a large price difference. If however, you are going into welding pressure vessels then I would look (and pay) for any advantage I could get.
Best regards
Keith
Reply to
jontom_1uk
BOC charge even if you collect it youself which I reckon is a cheek.
AWEM
Reply to
Andrew Mawson
I think they all do charge for the privilege of doing business with them :-(
Less than for delivery, though.
CO2 isn't much good outside in this weather, IIRC.
I use Messers (Air Liquide now, I think) just because they offered me a slightly better deal than BOC, plus their agents were able to deliver down the towpath in their Transit. Trouble is, success has gone to their head & they've got a real wagon now so no better than the rest.
I use the equivalent of Argoshield Universal/TC for bare wire, & Heavy/20% for flux cored wires.
Cheers Tim
Cheers Tim
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Reply to
Tim Leech
Too right. I used to collect from the local collection point at Stanton Ironworks where they also had a plant to fill bottles and supply Stanton with Oxy for the re melt furnaces.
On checking the bill one day I saw that I had been charged £7.00 handling and £8.00 delivery on top of the gas. I rang them to point out I had collected. Their reply was we have to deliver from derby to Stanton. I pointed out that they filled at Stanton only to be told only some.
When I asked how they differentiated between Derby filled and delivered bottles and Stanton filled bottles they couldn't answer. I then asked what right they had stealing the air from around Stanton and putting it into bottles. It wasn't their air to steal in the first place. The bloody birds were flying around wearing inhalers there was that much of a lack of oxygen.
All to no avail. I had no end of ding dongs with that company but never got anywhere.
My only smirk of satisfaction was when I paid the bill each month it said in large letters
"Do not fold or staple"
I often wonder how long it used to take them to get 144 staples out and unfold the cheque from inside a postage stamped sized remittance note
-- Regards,
John Stevenson Nottingham, England.
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Reply to
John Stevenson
Should not happen at least in the UK. A Co2 Bottle in the licensed trade is still a Co2 Bottle with the appropriate thread. A mixed gas bottle has a different connection of the opposite gender to a Co2 one. It is possible to get the wrong blend of mixed gas connected wrongly though. In the intended market this will not cause a dangerous situation merely an inconvenience as Lager dispenses flat or Guinness too frothy etc. Trouble is Pub staff being non technical often refer to mixed gas as Co2 .They just connect up the right fitting to the correct Bottle as that is the only way they will connect .The actual label they may never read. hence the problem with the wrong blends sometimes. You get the odd horror tale though. Usually where a person as acquired some bits and built a bar at home and buys a keg from some source. When I was in the industry we had notification of one of these homemade setups where an accident had occurred. Usually by exceeding the pressure limit for a beer keg but beer being dispensed by Acetylene was another. Mind you I have heard of someone attempting to start an air start Diesel with Oyxgen as it was the only pressured bottle that was to hand. Apparently it knocked a bit before it died.
G.Harman
Reply to
g.harman
Many years ago I used to get CO2 from the distillers company.Came in a bottle similar to oxygen but a bit slimmer.In these days it was 25% of what BOC were charging.You needed a heater between the bottle and the regulator because it was a liquid draw off bottle. regards,Mark.
Reply to
mark
I ought to know this, but it was quite a while ago that I went to college to study fab & weld. I seem to recall that CO2 gives better penetration, but Argon gives a more stable arc -and makes it easier to get a reasonable looking weld. Hence the usual "argoshield" mixes, which have argon & CO2 (the best of both -but at a cost ££). Welding with pure CO2 it is quite difficult to get a weld that looks good, and you should get a structually sound weld (even if it isn't pretty).
Regards Kevin
Reply to
Kevin Steele
Charles
Might be a bit late if you have already changed to CO2 but just saw this on another group.
"CO2
Having obtained an old brewery co2 container with the welding set earlier in the year. I have finally come to the point where I needed more. Tried the usal route of BOC and AP (only fill our own bottles sir) and the fire extingiusher companies ( yes sir =A315 for the fill =A330 for the bottle to be pressure tested and a =A315 handling charge) ebay (=A350 for a new bottle filled but I needed to drive 100 miles to pick it up) when I discovered that the calor gas distributor locally supplies for =A315 +vat. Arriving with old bottle I was told you can keep that sir we don't want it. Thus the price includes a new 5.5kg bottle, pressure tested painted in the new colours (oh yes I did not mention that the fire extinguisher company stated that my black bottle would be obsolete in 2 years ) and whats more available at the drop of the hat from their depot that opens at 07.00.
Now thats what I call a result"
The link to the group is
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Unfortunately I have just replaced my Air Products bottle which will last me a year or so, then again this seems so cheap perhaps I'll get a CO2 bottle for the "gash" jobs and keep the expensive gas for the more important ones.
Sorry if it's too late to help
Best regards
Keith
Reply to
jontom_1uk

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