Model Engineer magazine - The future

While not a "model engineer" (I hang around here as I use model engineering tools etc to make up parts for my hobby), I think you are selling your hobby short. True the "young of today" won't have seen steam trains or (real) steam rollers etc. but don't assume that if you expose them to the joy of making working things with their hands, they won't be fascinated and maybe take up the hobby. I see similar comments in my hobby (amateur radio) and the 'old timers' reckon youngsters will turn to mobilephones or "MSN Messenger" in preference to using a radio. However, that isn't my experience- once the youngsters see the magic of the hobby they tend to be hooked.

The problem is letting them know the hobby exists- esp. when these days the traditional "metal work" lesson is no more.

Don't give up, offer to take some of your models to a local school etc. and put on a demo for the "design and technology" classes.

Brian

Governing bodies are staffed by a number of different "types" of governor - parent's, LEA, Community, Sponsor etc. It's a volunteer thing that consumes time and provides no cash reward.

If you have something to offer, then see the Head or chair of governors they are not usually overstocked with people to provide help and support!

Steve

My son has a copy of "Pro Desktop" provided by the school to allow the design of a model dragster, from which they produce the actual desing on an CNC machine. The models are CO2 cylinder powered and there is a local schools tournament to find the fastest design. The track is a commercial piece of kit with electronic timing etc. So things are quite so bad, the school does have a Bridgeport type Mill a decent lathe and brazing hearth, though I don't think they have any casting facilities now.

From an electronics point of view, they are equipped (personally) with a circuit simulator from

with PCB design and manufacture capability in school. I checked out the rev counter design for my lathe with it - its pretty competent stuff.

There are some pretty good technology things in school going on folks!

Regards

Steve

Possibly that last statement has a ring of truth to it, quite how you expose someone at 40 to something new will be interesting to see.

The hobby is going to change of that there is no doubt. Clubs fail due to lack of members, land and premises being sold etc. Shows could be one of the next to be affected. I Recently did the Ally Pally show and talking to some of the bigger players it became obvious that even though they have massive stocks at the show and seem really busy most actually loose money.

Take the stand prices which go up every year, transport hire, anything from Transit's to 38 ton artic's, fuel, 4 nights of hotel fees at top rates as they know the venue is on, staff wages for 3 or 4, meals, and there isn't much left, if anything. Most only go to show a presence and hand out catalogues and point to web sites where all the real business is done.

If the big 5 were to get together and say no then that show would fold and possibly not be repeated the next year.

Because of the absence of apprenticeship schemes and college training the entry into the hobby is also going to be different. Many start by making their own equipment or at least parts of it but this is where cheque book engineering is going to take over.

Years ago when I was looking for a milling machine, price came top of the list as being recently married and having a small family cash was tight, like most people. Looking around all I could find were Tom Seniors and large industrial machines, neither suitable by size or price. Then I saw the advert for MES's Dore Westbury in kit form and started off down that path. It turned out a nice machine and did me a lot of good. Even though I was lucky to have had a very good apprenticeship it gave me more practical experience.

I later went on to build their boring head and rotary table. Anyone coming into the hobby today can't or won't follow this route, either because the kits aren't available or it's not cost effective to go this way. You can buy a complete running machine, with a plug on, for less than a kit nowdays. In MEW #101 there was an article about making a 4" rotary table from castings. It makes me wonder if anyone does given they are available for about £70.00 complete.

Also looking though a recent copy of MEW one article is so badly drawn and described that it's impossible to build it from the plans. That in itself is enough to put people off. They will read this, see one has been built and assume it's their fault that they can't understand the drawings and not bother.

As I have said before I'm not a model engineer but do they still have beginners sections at the shows?

What about some or all of the big 5 exhibitors giving prizes in different classes as a beginners incentive?

Many of the fine models we see date back to the older days of model engineering where time was more freely available. Many are fathers models being exhibited by sons and don't give a clear indication on how healthy the hobby is today.

Really the whole rub of the matter though is that it's up to the present generation to do more to support the hobby. Attend shows, talk to people, buy from exhibitors, buy the mags etc. This may sound all commercial and cost money but it takes money to keep this moving. In some ways it will get better. Looking round the recent Ally Pally show and talking to people more and more are becoming computer and internet aware. Sorry to say but the old die hard's who have no time for new technology will be gone over the next 10 to 15 years. It's not just age but a frame of mind. I spoke to a guy 73 who's going to have a go at CNC'ing a small mill drill as his eyesight is getting really bad. I hope he gets there but he won't be alone in what he's doing.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

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That's right - but, speaking as a governor, I know just how much time the role can consume...and it's not always easy for people to take time off work to make the meetings or to attend school for the purposes of inspection and review. It also means getting involved in other areas, which takes yet more time....a governor with a single interest isn't going to be much use to the body ( unless that body is particularly large...and that's extremely rare ).

That said, a good governing body will always welcome input from 'critical friends' and supportive businesses - so there will always be avenues of representation that won't require the sort of commitment it takes to be a governor.

Regards,

Yet how often have you heard, 'We've nothing to do. That's why were vandalising these cars, terrorising old ladies, etc'?

Russell.

Russell

Yes I agree that excuse is often given, what it actually translates to is "We've nothing to do THAT WE WANT TO DO". Maybe a bit unfair really as my "busy" lifestyle example needs parents who are supportive and encouraging, unfortunately not a "given" these days.

Regards

Keith

I suspect that success will depend mainly on how we develop our use of the internet to introduce and display our interest to the interested but uninitiated. Not sure that models are the best intro to this age group, supporting other interests like cars, bikes etc might be more effective. A friend of mine has become interested in a home shop after realising that he is becoming too old and stiff to roar about in the mud on a bike every weekend.

I don't doubt that particularly as the public have become much more demanding. They want space and light to walk round in, they want to be served instantly when they finally make up their mind what to buy, they want to be fed and watered, they want to have a carpark just outside the door and they want to be safe and secure. Forgive my warped sense of hunour and read "want" as "deserve". Of course the organisers want to be rich as well.

I wonder if as people get more trusting of internet sites (if their initial experiences are good) if this will remain a need. At the moment most people want to see, touch and feel the goods before buying (engineers anyway). As we become virtual shoppers will this need reduce?

Not totally sure who the "big 5" are but I went to a local show at Taunton last year organised by the local club in a school, it was enjoyable if fairly quiet and seemed to be supported by a couple of the smaller but well know trade stands. Perhaps an increase of these smaller local shows would be helpful. Might even give local traders (if they still exist) a chance to show their wares without being overshadowed by the "big 5".

Fully agree, it has been the case in my many other interests. doesn't destroy the hobby though but certainly changes the "face" of many clubs. How many clubs and ME societies have used this change coupled with the "insurance issues" excuse to close (and sell of the equipment cheaply) their practical facilities.

This is where todays starter has a great advantage, working machines for the cost of a set of drawings/castings. Today however, he/she rarely has the advantage of taking the project to work for "Fred" to sort out if necessary.

A pity then that many clubs have closed their practical facilities because these with a suitable "mentor" were great places to improve confidence. Evening classes were also a good help here and will be a great loss if they go entirely.

Another issue here is that the standard of most exhibits these days is so high that many potential exhibitors believe that "mines not good enough, no one will want to see it". Perhaps a class for those in the first two years of the interest would encourage them. Prizes would certainly encourage entries but how about an "encouraging (and private) critique for the exhibitor from the judges.

Agreed but I would also say use the facilities like the one we are using now, have your say and join in the debate. The more views that are expressed the more accurate the picture of what is needed will become. The problem as always is that it is difficult to get the "silent majority" to speak. To much passion in modern life not enough common sense.

I certainly agree that it is a possibility and also agree that we should do everything possible to expose the generation replacing us (slowly I hope), to the enjoyment of owning and using a home workshop. Whatever they chose to make/repair in it.

Best regards

KEith

Surely, the point here is 'Engineering'. It doesn't matter if you wish to apply this to models, making parts for engines, fixing the washing machine/car/lawn mower (delete as appropriate) or whatever else, the fact is that all of these things are essentially 'do it yourself/making things' activities that one gets satisfaction from completing - because we enjoy 'engineering'. We are all different but we have the same aim - to use engineering as a discipline and machine tools as an enjoyable means to an end.

The fact is that most of us would rather skim a classic car brake disk (as I did recently) than go and buy a new one, it is the challenge and the satisfaction of driving the car with smooth brakes and no wobble that gives us the satisfaction that we did that and at a masive saving in costs. We rebuild/repair/make all manner of things, just because we can and because we are fasinated by materials, engineering practice, machining operations and the associated challenges. Many of us undoubtedly take on projects that are simply not viable, too hard and occasionally not succesful just for the challenge and the interest. This is a 'mind set' introduced by our parents, friends, apprentiships etc. It is not IMHO a natural or often even logical progression if the appropriate influences are not present.

I certainly agree with the idea that the term 'Model Engineering' should be killed off as it is relatively inapropriate these days, Home Shop Machinst, Amateur Engineer or whatever is far more encompassing and far less embarassing as a phrase to describe oneself (Model Engineer always seems to engender to vision of an old git riding on a miniscule steam locomotive to me and, I think, many others - even though I occasionally build models).

I tend to think we do these things because oneday, someone introduced us to the means to make it happen. They didn't show us a traction engine and say "one day, you could make one of those", they showed us a lathe or a milling machine and said "it can do anything, the rest is up to you". If you appreciate fine engineering AND have a basic appreciation of the way it can be produced you will possibly give it a try. Which brings us back to the inspiration. It can only come from peer pressure or education. Peer pressure is the bit that is dwindling, education is getting more and more difficult to find (although not yet non-existent) and certainly does not automatically fall in the path of your average youngster.

We need a make-over (to coin another overworked American phrase) but more than that, we need to get engineering back into the fashionable mainstream. If 20+ house decoration/DIY shows can exist on TV, why can't we sell some engineering related DIY?

Mark

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It's as much to do with targetted advertising as much as anything else.

Look at the adverts on Channel 4 and match the type of adverts with the classification of those people expected to be watching the programme being shown.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

It should be kept in mind, that the founder of ME, Percival Marshal, was a graduate EE. His brothers degree was an ME. I if nothing else, they kept bad science out of the magazine! Martin Evans kept things under control during his time as editor, but things began to slip after that.

Steve R.

I have lost track of the ownership changes, I remember EMEC which was at Hemel Hempstead, but there have been others over the years, some through takeovers.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

"> From my point of view the biggest mistake was to spin off MEW.

I very strongly agree with these comments and I am not young. Number three son who services/repairs very large jet engines loves to get into the workshop at the weekend but only if he can make things quickly.

That typifies the difference between the older and younger groups.

My youngest is always fiddling about with bits and pieces, but has trouble looking long-term, and wonders why I bother building up the workshop over a period of time, he would prefer an 'instant' solution!

Apart from the obvious cost of buying mills and lathes, there is also the changing availability of things like tooling, this past year being the cheapest I have seen stuff on ebay for quite a time.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

That would be me then:) From nothing to a lathe, mill, & grinder in 3 months. I did feel a little bit guilty but self-justified it as making up for lost time in the the years spent with just a hacksaw and file and lots of cursing.

I can't interest my 13 yr old son in the slightest degree to spend any time in the workshop, but my 9yr old daughter is another matter entirely. I can hardly keep her out of the place and she has already spent some (very carefully supervised!) time on the lathe and mill, and will spend ages trying to build things from bits of scrap and nuts and bolts.

However, she has always been quite patient and tenacious for one so young whilst her brother prefers more instant results from whatever he applies himself too.

Peter

I think the same comment could have applied to me when I was young. I used to build model aircraft and radios but they were all relatively short projects, a few months at most. It wasn't until I was about thirty that I started my first long term project, a complete rebuild of a vintage car and bought my first lathe as part of that excersise.

Where do all the chinese lathes that are imported end up? Do they gather dust or are they used? ME/MEW should be trying to recruit the new owners of these machines to their readership. Perhaps they should do a deal with the importers to give away a complementary issue with each new machine sold?

Russell.

That should have been EMAP.

Noticed that 'Smash Hits' magazine is closing, another sign of the times?

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

Peter Forbes wrote

And, Peter, prior to that, and also at the same address at Hemel Hempstead it was under two iterations of just MAP.

Initially I remember it as Model Aeronautical Press, publishing the old 'Aeromodeller' magazine. At that time they carried a huge resource of very reasonably priced plans under the 'Plans Service' banner. There was also a 'Model Aeroplane' which may have been swallowed up in this.

Then it grew and further hobby titles were added but it still retained the MAP. This now stood for Model and Allied Publications. 'Model Boats' was one, which I believe is still in the fold. During the hay day of slot car racing in the sixties there was a 'Model Cars'.

I am not sure at what point 'Model Engineer' joined the group.

Whatever happened to the Plans Service I wonder - does it still exist?

Mike

It's worth pointing out that MAP, the predecesor of Nexus and Highbury House has nothing to do with EMAP (East Midlands Allied Press). I gather that the desire for "celebs" and the sucess of Heat has put paid to the teenage desire for Smash Hits.

Charles