Not Torx drivers

Anyone know what the Torx like things with 12 points are called? I've recently come across them on some car door locks and a few other auto related uses.
Next question, where to get some drivers at a working man's price? Thanks Richard

: Anyone know what the Torx like things with 12 points are called? I've : recently come across them on some car door locks and a few other auto : related uses.
12 point spline drive, very common, first came to prominence in the motor trade via the Ford Pinto engine cylinder head bolts back in the early 1970s. Bet you're wanting to work on recent VW (group) vehicle?... :~)
: : Next question, where to get some drivers at a working man's price?
Halfords should have them, otherwise Machine Mart or (on line) Sealy or their motor trade factors - saying that, there does, now days, seem to be some confusion in naming terminology on some sites, so physically check if you can! :~(

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:12:23 +0100, "Jerry"
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Thanks fellas. Yup, VAG it is. Audi A6 doors specifically, but other bits in general. Got up this morning and found the rear n/s door window busted?!? :-( No other damage, nothing missing from the car which was parked on the drive behind locked gates. The dogs didn't make any racket during the night so I suspect an inanimate object of some sort during the storm, but haven't found a likely culprit - very odd.
Richard

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: Got up this morning and found the rear n/s door window busted?!? :-(
Hmm, doesn't your insurance inclued glass cover, even with their excess (and unless you're planning on using second-hand glass) I suspect that you won't be able to buy the glass for that excess - I know that when my door glass got smashed I couldn't have done the job myself cheaper than via the insurance and I'm in the motor trade with trade discounts available to me!

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Can I dive in with a related question, as you seem to know something about these things (& if you don't know the answer, maybe someone else will) The front passenger window on my 10 yo Passat has recently taken to 'bouncing back' when you try to close it. If you close it to the top on the button, it immediately reopens all the way down. I can get it almost fully closed on leaving the car by using the door key. Any ideas why? The mechanism sometimes makes worrying grunts also.
Thanks Tim

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: The front passenger window on my 10 yo Passat has recently taken to : 'bouncing back' when you try to close it. If you close it to the top : on the button, it immediately reopens all the way down. I can get it : almost fully closed on leaving the car by using the door key. Any : ideas why? : The mechanism sometimes makes worrying grunts also. :
Sounds like something is causing the mechanism to stall before the top, most window motors these days have an 'stall prevention' circuit that prevent - as has happened in the past - people (especially young kids...) being garrotted and killed by the door glass. I suspect that the only real solution will be to replace the mechanism, after first disconnecting and checking that the door glass has free movement for the whole travel of the window channel.
HTH, although probably not what you really wanted to hear!

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try running back to black spray silicone down the rubbers ..
because, after a while the rubbers become extremely dry and can cause a lot of friction .
make sure it's simoniz back to black though,or a good make of clear silicone, because there are other cheap "so called" silicones are all solvent and very little silicone .
all the best.markj

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It does sound like the "stall prevention" is kicking in and stopping the window closing. On the Senators and Carltons I had there was a button you could press (had to hold button down while pressing window close switch) to overide this, as it often kicked in for reasons like iced up windows. Might be worth checking if there is a manual overide somewhere. And the suggestions about cleaning/lubricating the machanism and slide channels sounds like good advice for curing the problem.
Regards Kevin

Kevin wrote:
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On my Ford Cmax, the car has to learn the upper and lower limits of the window travel and sometimes 'forgets' the settings. The learning routine is to press the down button and hold for several seconds after the window is fully open and repeat with the up button for fully closed. You might have to disconnect the battery to get your car to 'forget' its settings first. Might be worth a try?
Bob

<snip> : You might have to disconnect the battery to get your car to 'forget' its : settings first.
DO NOT DO THIS unless you **_know_** your car has it's engine/transmission/climate control (etc.) management settings in a non-volatile memory, otherwise you might find that you're next trip (in 'limp-home' mode) is to your nearest dealer to have the ECU reprogrammed!...

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It sounds as if the anti-trap mechanism needs resetting. I'm sorry I can't tell you how to do it on a Passat: if you don't have the manual try talking to a dealer.
HTH
John

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If the window doesn't go up and down smoothly, then you need to find out why. Silicone/teflon spray on the guides is a nice easy thing to try first.
The anti-trap device on most modern cars is electronic. When you first connect the system up, you need to activate the windows and 'teach' each window regulator/motor/control (the control is built into the motor normally) where the limits are. How you activate the teach mode depends on the car (I know vauxhalls you need to disconnect the battery, for a short period, reconnect it, then hold the button down for at least 2 seconds after the window reaches the limit).
You need to make sure you do the teach with doors shut, as the flex in the door as the window pushes up at the limit, can be enough to stop the window reaching the limit point once the door has been shut without tripping the anti-trap.
moray

: <snip> : : You need to make sure you do the teach with doors shut, as the flex in the : door as the window pushes up at the limit, can be enough to stop the window : reaching the limit point once the door has been shut without tripping the : anti-trap. :
Total clap-trap... If the doors are flexing *that* much there is something wrong!...

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You've got to remember some of these things are pretty accurate, and it doesn't take that much flex to get a bit variation at the window regulator. If you consider that when the motor forces a curved window up against the top of the door, it will also force the centre of the door outwards. Combine that with when the door is shut, the door catch will pull the center of the door inwards, and you could end up with enough flex so the shut position is just that little bit beyond reach, and trigger the anti-trap.
It's not something I've personally witnessed, but it was mentioned during a vehicle manufacturers training course, as something to be aware of when you're reprogramming volatile memories.

: > : : > <snip> : > : : > : You need to make sure you do the teach with doors shut, as the : > flex in the : > : door as the window pushes up at the limit, can be enough to : > stop the window : > : reaching the limit point once the door has been shut without : > tripping the : > : anti-trap. : > : : > : > Total clap-trap... If the doors are flexing *that* much there is : > something wrong!... : > : : You've got to remember some of these things are pretty accurate, and it : doesn't take that much flex to get a bit variation at the window regulator.
...whilst you need to remember that, although I don't think I've mentioned this before on the group, that I've got over 30 odd years experience repairing cars with 20 of those been involved in all aspects of the car body/crash repair. :~)
: If you consider that when the motor forces a curved window up against the : top of the door, it will also force the centre of the door outwards. Combine : that with when the door is shut, the door catch will pull the center of the : door inwards, and you could end up with enough flex so the shut position is : just that little bit beyond reach, and trigger the anti-trap.
Very few cars, one can them on one hand, have door catches that retrain the upper part (drop-glass frame) of the door, if the drop-glass motor is going to apply a force (via the glass) to the upper door frame and cause deflection it's going to do it if the door is open *or* closed - no flexible rubber door seal is going to stop it! It's just that it's less noticeable when the door is shut.
: : It's not something I've personally witnessed, but it was mentioned during a : vehicle manufacturers training course, as something to be aware of when : you're reprogramming volatile memories. :
Was this regarding the theory of the mechanism, if so I do accept that it can be an issue but as I said before, it will be a sign that there is something else wrong, if the drop-glass will not close correctly with the door open it's likely that the door shell/window frame is way out of alignment which needs correcting *first* before any re-programming of the limit and anti-stall electronics.

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It can't have been that inanimate if it broke the window ;-) Martin

Richard Shute wrote:
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They are likely to be XZN spline bits. Drivers are made by Draper, Elora and maybe Hilka. I expect you will find some on Amazon or the other usual tools suppliers.
HTH
Bob

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i have the same set as this ..below link.
draper expert .
very good quality .even the box is quality ..very thick and robust
it has all you need in it .torx star-bits and hex bits, had it for years ..very impressed with it .
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRAPER-40-PIECE-MECHANICS-TORX-SPLINE-HEX-BIT-SET_W0QQitemZ330345120250QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4cea1a81fa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A7%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
all the best.markj

mark wrote:
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRAPER-40-PIECE-MECHANICS-TORX-SPLINE-HEX-BIT-SET_W0QQitemZ330345120250QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4cea1a81fa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparmse%3A7%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
Thanks Mark, that looks a reasonable deal. Unfortunately the insurance is 3PFT so glass isn't covered and I haven't even asked Audi what they would charge, I'm off to the breakers this morning. Cheers Richard

<snip> : Unfortunately the insurance is 3PFT so glass isn't covered and I haven't : even asked Audi what they would charge, I'm off to the breakers this : morning.
Make sure you get **ALL** the glass out of the window seals/channels (you might need to **cheerfully** remove the rubber channel seal from the cannel to do this properly) otherwise you will have a nasty scraping noise if not another smashed door glass - OH and wind/door glass is bloody sharp, literally...
Audi doors are not the nicest things to work on, and don't get your fingers caught up in the electric winder mechanism [1], your fingers will loose, meaning that you might loose your finger tips...
[1] and for that matter, on a more generic point, either pop-up headlight or windscreen wiper mechanisms!