Why bother? If you are so dimwitted and stubborn that you can't tell the difference between twenty thousand and three billion, how can you possibly understand the many ways in which you have misunderstood Chomsky or the subtle errors Chomsky himself made?
Uhh.. that's exactly what I said. Read it again.
Cheers!
Sir Charles W. Shults III, K. B. B. Xenotech Research
321-206-1840
At least its clear you left the debate.
Please just debunk Chomky's result so we can gain some insight into you.
What the hell is "20,000 active in brain" supposed to mean?
Umm, what?
e7 wrote: [snip]
There is no need to debunk Chomsky here for three reasons:
1) You have demonstrated a complete inability to perform basic mathematical calclations, or to at least acknowledge your mistake (or if it is not a mistake, to clarify your position). This makes you look like a crank, and thus any further effort on anyone's part would likely be a supreme waste of time and energy.2) Others in this thread have already posted links to alternative and more current theories of mind than Chomsky's, which you have apparently chosen to ignore. While these may or may not be correct, the fact that you fail to acknowledge these bodes ill for your basic credibility.
3) Chomsky is irrelevant to your argument. As others have pointed out, complex and seemingly novel systems can emerge from simple initial conditions -- a phenomena commonly termed "emergence". There is thus no need for DNA to be a "blueprint" as that word is ordinarily used. If you were actually an "information technologist" you would have at least a passing familiarity with this concept. Clearly, however, this is not the case -- thus you would (again) to appear to be a crank.I'd go on, but I've been playing the "e7 drinking game" and am within a hair's breadth of slipping into a coma.
I have a theory (indulge me, I've had a half bottle of Pinot Grigio, and the theory is only half-formed) that e7 is an experimental AI reponder like Eliza. Whereas Eliza when stuck for anything to say would ask "Tell me about your mother", e7 just slips in staock phrases like "But Chomsky states..."
And, just like Eliza, e7 only appears intelligent, but never really learns anything.
Just my tuppence.
PeterS Remove my pants to reply.
Nope. Not until you own up to your math errors. I am right, you are wrong. That's all the insight you need.
I am convinced that you are a person who never admits that he is wrong, and that you will never admit that your claim that the human genome has
20,000 bits of information in it when it actually has 3 billion bits of information in it is bogus. If you refuse to admit such an obvious and stupid error, what's the use in addressing any of your other claims?
He pulled it out of his arse, just like his other numbers.
Wrong again. The debate is still at the first point. You claimed that the human genome has 20,000 bits of information. I provided proof that it has billions of bits of information. You aren't allowed to post obvious howlers and then to move on without dealing with your error.
ELIZA just called. It demands an apology...
Perhaps this is really a copy of PARRY. See
I can accept that the number's probably random, but what's the actual message he's trying to convey in that crime against the English language which follows the number? "Active" how? Given that chromosomes are present in every cell, how can some only be "active" in the brain? You couldn't be more vague and ambiguous if you tried.
No. All one person does is have to defeat this one claim.
Your argument is simple:
Therefore people can't exist.
Perhaps you should rethink your argument.
The major problem with your argument is that you keep harking on "Chomsky says". You don't look into the evidence behind his claim. You are treating his word like absolute truth. Therefore this has become, for you, a religeous argument.
If your arguments were true, then even you wouldn't have the intelligence to start this thread. If it's false, then you're just being a troll.
-- D. Jay Newman
"R. Steve Walz" :
Me ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com):
"R. Steve Walz" :
I apologize. I posted in haste. Your explanation is clearer and more accurate than mine (although essentially the same, of course).
"R. Steve Walz" :
If you keep thinking along these lines you will realize that you could well be a cybersoul in a supercomputer a million years in the future.
Then you might read "Pigs in Cyberspace" and realize that you ACTUALLY ARE a cybersoul in a supercomputer a million years in the future.
Then you will understand that anyone who doesn't accept that she/he is a cybersoul is either a schizophrenic or a moron and needs help.
$1500/month would be enough. And probably cheaper than all the "help" the government is presently supplying to schizophrenics and morons. karen715j
Well, that part is actually pretty clear. All of the genes are present in every cell, but they aren't all turned on producing proteins in each of those cells. That's what the "active" part means. I don't know where he got that number, although I think I've seen something like it elsewhere (i.e., someplace reputable that I can't remember a citation for), but that makes sense. You don't want genes responsible for generating your feet to be active in your brain, unless they have a separate use in brain tissues.
Even if the 20,000 number is in the right ballpark, it isn't clear whether that means 20,000 _exclusively_ active in the brain, or if that includes genes necessary for normal cell functions. Nor does it address the sequence in which those genes are activated and deactivated, or which cell types express which genes, etc. etc.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
Tom
------------------------------ You did so by taking what he said out of its context, and away from its meaning, and you do this because you are a schizophrenic.
You need meds. You proved this with your fractal robot delusions, while your ideas were good you have no ability to manage your ideas in a reasoned and reasonable manner. You cling to trivia as if it were a basis, while ignoring truly fundamental issues, you, sir, are an unfortunate nutcake. You will continue to be an unfortunate until and unless you seek medical assistance and accept their advice and help.
-Steve
--------------- That's all silly, you don't even know the most basic molecular biology or genetics, just get a couple books and begin at the beginning. While there may be 50K genes in each cell, the number of things encoded in them are much larger than you think, and there are trillions of brain cells, in other words, the machine these 50K genes create has a very much unbelievably larger number of propositional possibilities than you understand that it has.
-Steve
------------------------- I notice that whenever you are opposed you assume a paranoid resistance to such opposition and respond by solidifying your belief in trivial pieces of misquoted trash as a kind of gospel to protect you from "losing your faith". You, sir, are terrified that some devious cabal will talk you into something you don't really fathom, and that you yourself are so fragile that you might actually become deceived by "them" and believe in what is actually false, you're frightened of everyone who doesn't believe whatever you say absolutely uncritically!!
---------------------------------- Go review ALife programming at the Santa Fe Institute.
--------------------------------------------- What I was trying to tell you is that IS NOT the way it was done!
It doesn't exist, it doesn't have to, evolution didn't do it that way, it learned by random variation and attrition of organisms which had less survivable properties of behavior. So you see, it didn't store any info on personality, only on the machine in which personality spontaneously grows, and it leaves it to that process to perfect the response of the organism. Now one high-level way of responding to an environment is to grow a software device that helps the organism, and this software device is called self-modeling/memory/awareness. That is what we call "US" our mind and existence in this story we tell ourselves called Life In The World.
-------------- Yes, I know that. I wish YOU REALLY did!
-Steve
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