is DNA stupid?

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Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com wrote in message

(hangs head in shame)
Sorry. It's like a mosquito bite... I just hate seeing reasoning based on something I ate 2 days ago.
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Good gravy!!!
What hath Evolution wrought on us?
Troll-town!
--
- Alan Kilian <alank(at)timelogic.com>
Director of Bioinformatics, TimeLogic Corporation 763-449-7622
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\_\_\_____/_/_/ {o o} ] [ "Please don't feed the Troll" [_] /
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karen715j@yahoo:

I forgot to give the link: http://www.vivisectioninfo.org/ucsf/nihcomp.html
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&fG&t 4&st=0 ------------------------------------------------------------------ ImmInst.org Focus Brain-Computer Interfacing Pages: (2) [1] 2 ( Go to first unread post ) Neural Interfacing Resources Track Topic | Email Topic | Print ocsrazor Posted: Feb 16, 2003 | link Group: Advisor* Joined: Jan 12, 2003 Posts: 347 'We must develop as quickly as possible technologies that make possible a direct connection between brain and computer, so that artificial brains contribute to human intelligence rather than opposing it.' -- Stephen Hawking ------------------------------------------------------------------- karen715j:
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_umsgid=Mydk7.22533% snipped-for-privacy@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com&lr=&hl=en From: Mark ( snipped-for-privacy@prodigy.net) Subject: Why we must GM on Ourselves View: Complete Thread (10 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus
Date: 2001-09-01 15:47:04 PST Saturday September 1 3:37 PM ET
Physicist Warns Humans About A.I.
BERLIN (AP) - People get ready: the machines are coming.
That's the word from famed British physicist Stephen Hawking, who says if humans hope to compete with the rising tide of artificial intelligence, they'll have to improve through genetic engineering. karen715j: This was a misquote, not that it matters much. http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t925
In an interview released Saturday with the newsmagazine Focus, Hawking said science could increase the complexity of DNA and ``improve'' human beings. karen715j: More misquoting.
He conceded that it would be a long process, ``but we should follow this road if we want biological systems to remain superior to electronic ones.''
``In contrast with our intellect, computers double their performance every 18 months,'' he added. ``So the danger is real that they could develop intelligence and take over the world.''
``We must develop as quickly as possible technologies that make possible a direct connection between brain and computer, so that artificial brains contribute to human intelligence rather than opposing it,'' Hawking said.
Hawking, the author of the best-selling ``A Brief History of Time,'' holds a prestigious Cambridge University chair once held by Sir Isaac Newton.
The 59-year-old lives with Lou Gehrig's disease and uses a motorized wheelchair and computer voice synthesizer.
End Hawking quote===================------------------------------------------------------------------------ karen715j: Back to ocrazor at imminst:
<snip>
Brief Background Actually, the field has been around since the early 1900's when researchers began recording from neurons with single electrodes. This type of research comprises the sub-discipline of neuroscience known as electrophysiology. For the last century the state of the art was to insert one or more glass electrodes into a single neuron for recording or stimulation. Only in the last decade have scientists been able to record and stimulate large populations of neurons. The previous limitations of electrode technology and computational power have now been overcome.
<snip>
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&fG&t 4&st=0
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Karen J wrote:

...
Doubling performance does not lead to developing intelligence. We are not in danger of being swamped by more intelligent computers any time soon. We are in 'danger' of something unknown in 2035 according to Verner Vinge and all calculations support his projections made back in the 70's. May be Hawkins is better off reading up on that.
But this from another post http://www.ad.com/press/jun302004.html 500 GNU/Linux cluster computers to create 20 billion neurons and 20 tera synapses. Only a 'couple' of problems..
1. They gonna program it via a console interface.. Doh!.. :-) 2. This thread's topic of whether DNA is stupid seems to have found its mark - the guys are trying to build this cortex and have no idea how to boot it. They have money, they have computers but their super duper cortex is born dead. This is precisely the problem trying to be resolved in this thread. Is DNA so stupid, that there is no software to program up the brain, or is it being downloaded from somewhere either information stored in the DNA itself in what could only be highly encrypted form, or is it downloaded through umbelical cord, or some yet unknown mechanism is at work?
Noam Chomsky if listening and Marvin Minsky and all experts at MIT and CMU AI departments are welcome to pontificate on this - its a pretty serious problem - I just can't see where the programming of the brain is taking place. Its not just us - but monkeys and other animals all have a huge amount of information programmed in before birth and this diversity of information means there must be a software tape somewhere that contains the diversity - but as we know its probably not in the DNA. I like to think its coming down the umbelical cord - but then there are creatures like chickens that are born programmed from an egg without the mother to chick direct umbelical cord link. It doesn't leave much room for innovative ideas.

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############################################################ # # # TROLL FEEDING IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THIS MEANS YOU! # # # ###############(\##########################/)############### ((_)) ((_)) | | ____ ____ | | | | | /_\||/_\ | | | |_| |_(O)||(O)_| |_| ((X)) [==] ((X)) \ \ ___ || ___ / / \ \ /__\\||//__\ / / \ \_____\\\///_____/ / \O______)\/(______O/ _ =/\= _ (X) (\/) (X) (X)===/\===(X) (X) (\/) (X) (X)===/\===(X) // (\/) \\ // _|/\|_ \\ (( /-/ \-\ )) \\/-/_/\_\-\// _/-// \\-\_ (__) (__) // \\ //\ /\\ //\/ \/\\ //\/ \/\\ ___(_)_ _(_)___ ___________///____\\______________//____\\\____________
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karen715j (me) quotes Stephen Hawking:

e7:
As I recall, Vinge suggested it might be any of a number of things: 1 - Standard computer type SuperIntelligence 2 - Quantum computer type SuperIntelligence 3 - SUPERBORGS (Not actually Vinge's word) 4 - The internet itself suddenly taking on some sort of "consciousness" or something and having (somehow) it's own interests like a corporation or church or animal or plant -- or something 5 - Other unpredictable SuperIntelligence suddenly emerging (Google???)
But the SUPERBORG vs. machine intelligence seems like a definte possible important political faceoff.
Hawking and I are on the side of the SUPERBORGS.
Odds are, of course, that we are thinking about something totally irrelevant to the future of KINDNESS.
But it (could be) so important, and is so interesting (to me), that I feel justified in spending a lot of time encouraging private and government to support cyborg research.
BUT ONLY IF THERE ARE PLENTY OF WEBCAMS IN THE LABS!!!!!!!
AND!!!!!!!!! MOST EXPERIMENTS, WHEREEVER FEASIBLE, SHOULD BE DONE ON HUMANS!!! NOT!!!! ANIMALS!!!!!!
e7:

Several people have given excellent explanations for you. Re-read them and attempt to slowly, carefully explain what is wrong with their refutation of you.
Maybe you'll find you mental block. Maybe you'll come up with something new and interesting to say. IMNSHO.
e7:

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Karen J wrote:

No they haven't. Each response is dependent on dismissing many known factors and completely self refuting.

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e7 wrote:

1. Erm... Life isn't a giant computer. Computers don't have anything intelligent. We boot up at conception, and our program data is to copy whatever our dna says. From there, our cells make up the rest of our body. 2. While we do have *some* knowledge premade, i will guarentee you that none of them are math, science, literature and language. What we do have pre programmed is how to pump the heart, how to make new cells. Anyway, if we are pre-programmed math, then it would be impossible to create a new branch of math. If we are pre-programmed science, then it would be impossible to create a new branch of science. Etc for the other two. However, if we are pre-programmed how to pump the heart, then it is impossible to find another way to pump the heart. We all have the same pattern with the heart, it pumps faster when we need more oxygen, and slower when we don't. Intelligence however isn't considered wether you can jump or breath, but how well you perform in math and literature and science and school subjects basically. And those are not preprogrammed. So if you consider pumping your heart to be intelligence in some way, then DNA is smart. If you don't, then DNA is dumb.
3.Umbillical chord?

True intelligence doesn't rely on programming. Explain to me how to program a computer to invent calculus from scratch? It is simply impossible. Neural Nets look like they are gettin close to this area. but mostly don't self teach themselves.

At least i agree with you here. No encodings of "intelligence" in the DNA. Primitive movements though are in the DNA.

Umbilical chord only transfers food, and any "information" is digested though a mixture of acids. And when did the first idea to flap the wings come, if not through DNA then from where?
Percival
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Karen J wrote:

I don't think that Chomsky said that. However, from e7's statements, it appears that he believes that 95% of a two-year old's knowledge is prewired.

Agreed.
One counter example is that Japanese has no separate words for green and blue. Yes, most people with normal sight can tell the difference between colors that they don't have the name for, but sometimes the difference has no meaning. This could explain my wardrobe, for example. :) -- D. Jay Newman
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I *knew* that my copy of the 1945 Japanese Aircraft Color Standards would come in handy some day! :)
Kusa-iro = Dark Green Midori-iro = Green Tanseishoku = Light Green
Kokuranshoku = Dark Blue Ao-iro = Blue Tanseishoku = Light Blue
--
Guy Macon, Electronics Engineer & Project Manager for hire.
Remember Doc Brown from the _Back to the Future_ movies? Do you
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Guy Macon wrote:

I'm not saying that they can't distiguish the colors, merely that by default they are considered the same.
For example, English has many words for shades of blue and green also, but they don't make much difference normally. -- D. Jay Newman
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04&lr=&hl=en Hallucinations (Apparently real and temporarily useful but not necessary and can be eventually discarded with the help of HedWeb drug therapy) Anger Depression Smugness Feelings of superiority Love
Einstein apparently thought everything would eventually be reduced To spacetime and a few equations and initial conditions.
But quantum mechanics seems to be true independently of spacetime.
This results in schizophrenic particles that hallucinate and have delusions.

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Karen J) wrote in message

Correction, quantum mechanics just has not been merged/encompasssed with relativity through a grand unification theory yet. The laws of physics have to be continuous, regardless of scale. Two of the leading candidates for this union are string theory and quantum loop gravity (which I'm a fan of).
Dave
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\_\_\_____/_/_/ {o o} ] [ "Please don't feed the Troll" [_] /
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