aaarg I cant find it, specs for GoFast

And ship it as "Model Aircraft Parts".

Oh well. I won't waste much more time here responding to Jerry.

The CXST motor core was as small as possible for high propellant loading density, with reasonable risk, because this was a very large motor and there was a limit to how many we could fire.

Higher pressure gives higher specific impulse. Also much lower dispersion. In fact you can't meet the FAA risk requirements by having minimal dispersion without a high thrust, short burn motor. (Which is why a two-stage or hybrid wasn't used.) But then, Jerry didn't know that.

The rocket was minimum diameter, high L/D. It was a very efficient design, it's actually a little on the low side in terms of total impulse for getting into space. Given the high thrust, short burn design profile to minimize dispersion. But then, Jerry didn't know that.

Guess who helped write the FAA requirements? Yours truly. The FAA originally put the Wallops Sounding Rocket Handbook into a Xerox machine and said, "meet these requirements". My inputs had two main impacts; the high-volume regulatory paperwork starts as high as possible; 125K ft. So everyone flying

It was the first amateur, non-professional rocket into space. Proven that it went into space, now that the flight data has been recovered with the payload section. Beat Rutan to space too, I might add! (Of course, nobody onboard!) I think the significance of this accomplishment will grow with time.

I was brought in during the final design of the motor. They were very scared about erosivity. I got a call from Derek Deville out of the blue; "you're an expert on this, we need a second opinion "outside consultant" big time". As Derek said on the phone; "when you're doing a project this big, you check your ego at the door". Derek is really the unsung hero here. If you want to know my contributions and impact on the project, just ask him.

And some excellent research and some very good erosive burning design criteria came out of this. Which will be shared with the high power rocketry/experimental rocketry community, and be documented in a High Power Rocketry tech article.

Oh, and the aerospike project? I helped conceive the whole project, and the overall design of the aerospike, from Day 1. I know how to team up with good team members to bring an idea to fruition. And people know I'm a good member to have on their team.

Chuck Rogers snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

I openly admit it has not been to space "yet" and you do not have "need to know" on the rest :)

Congrats on your piece of the puzzle on the KyM/JerryL spaceshot.

That is the precise statement I am challenging.

At Black Rock perhaps.

On that point I fully agree.

Well, yes I did. But again I agree with your technical comments but not your personal attacks.

Again I agree and congrats to all :)

It will become "legend", I agree.

The fraudulator?

Again congrats to the whole team.

History has indeed been made. For real.

Jerry

Well Jerry, just a couple corrections.

Jerry, you posted the following:

Implying that the first CXST motor failed from erosive burning. I very nicely corrected you.

Then YOU began the personal attacks. The above post implies that I was in charge, and that I screwed up. Now, when it was clear that I was not the head of the motor development, you changed your personal attacks to "I had no role" and that "I was a strap-hanger".

You can't have it both ways. The only consistent theme seems to be "Jerry doesn't like Chuck".

Well, that is the bottom line, isn't it? You can up the propellant loading to a fair-thee-well, and cato the motor, can't you? That's precisely why I was brought onboard. "Here's your options gentlemen; very conservative [won't make it into space], more aggressive, wee-ooo stand-back aggressive!" "Let's dial it in with the risk level we're comfortable with, but make it into space with margin."

Jerry, I played a small role on a motor that put the first amateur rocket into space. What I didn't do was leave a big smoking hole with a lot of disappointed people. Somehow Jerry, I think you would have made way too aggressive a motor and left a big smoking hole.

Chuck Rogers snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

Mind reader!

Not :-(

Bi-polar thinking. Option three, model erosiviity and design a core to optimize it (like good ole Jerry).

Cool!

Personal attack.

Jerry

Really Grave ?

I'm not being an apologist, but it looks like you and others are trying to Jerry Rig the rules as you think them to Demonize the Wallaby. What if Jerry and Dave were part of the AR team ?

If Dave compensated is team partner for his expenses for the propellant, it was not a commercial motor sale.

Also, where is it stated in any silly rules that I can't by propellant from someone and put in my motor and that's not an amateur rocketry activity.

Anything IMHO outside of codified HPR or MR codes is Amateur. I agree with Bruce that you certainly don't want to codify AR. Only those not wishing to do real AR themselves want to codify it, so others can't participate.

So many in the rocketry community have the "I can do something you can't do" mindset.

Starting with Fred Wallace.

And California law is the same way: the "experimental rockets unlimited" code explicitly governs the launch of all rockets not falling within the scope of the "model" or "high power" codes. The act of paying for the propellant doesn't change, violate, or even interact with any requirements of the "experimental rockets unlimited" code.

-dave w

HM.. Jerry selling motor without approved DOT papwer work, shipped

Fred

Nowhere, The "crux of the biscuit" is, someone selling propellant, is engaging in commerce and therefore, requires the necessary permits and paperwork to legally engage in said commerce.

Clearly, jerry sells motors and propellant for profit.

Chuck: I think there are other people thinking about space, or at least altitudes greater than 125K. Would it be possible to publish somewhere just what exactly is needed to obtain such a wavier from the FAA? There were many accomplishments with this space shot, the airframe held together, the motor worked, and not to be overlooked the FAA paperwork was in order.

Wedge Oldham

There was an FAA rep onsite as well. That is different from simply filing for a waiver and going it alone.

I agree with your request of course.

If I have a partner mix up propellent for me and I pay his expenses, it's still AR even if that partner is engaging in commerce of licensed motors for other activities, like goverment work, or heck even HPR once in a while.

The permits have to do with that partners business and is not a concern for me.

The fact that Jerry has no permits has nothing to do with AR and only to do with him.

I'd like to see it stay that way.

If you wish to Demonize him, do it some different way. Do not get the self appointed rocket cops thinking a manufacture of propellent can't sell it to someone for AR activities.

I can hear it now already. That is'nt AR, you had someone make it for you. That's the I can do something you can't do at work.

If someone can't mix, they are supposed to stay out of AR ? That would be elite think would it not ?

SELLS ? if he's selling motors, they are hard to find. Yes, I have found a few, very few. Wish I could find more. Otherwise the motor section on the website is vaporware.

PROFIT ? if Jerry was really making a Profit, I don't think he'd be rmr posting so much, he'd be enjoying making a profit and making motors and the fine life that goes with that.

Heck I saw it this morning on this Sunday infomercial.

"guy driving a power boat @ 30 knots with boat babe at his side, the spray of fresh water in the air"

In the next 30 mins, I'll tell you how I made my fortune in the Hi Power Rocket Motor business. Now that I'm rich, I want you also to be able to enjoy the fine life. For only 5 easy payments of $49.95,..............

If you only reimburse for the material cost of the propellant, i.e. no profit, that would be one thing, making a profit, means you're in commerce. You can't have it both ways.