APCP into the fire

I remember lots of HPR articles about flashbulbs being used. On site ematches are too easy to make instead.

Not quite, if you knew what you were talking about. NO (pure) is not freely available. The stuff for "speed shops" has an additional gas so that you don't try to do "hits" off the tank... NO is regulated, and you can only buy the "pure stuff" with a permit.

Now tell me, oh folks that claim that APCP shouldn't be regulated, why NO is currently regulated! Call your local "gas" supplier and ask for pure NO... You can't buy it, and haven't been able to do so for a long time.....

NO regulation is by the ATF? Oh that's right. Model rocket APCP is regulated as an explosive, which it isn't, by the ATF.

NO is regulated because it is an abused drug.

You want bitch about something regulated, try to buy pseudophedhoweverinthehellitsspelled for those winter sniffles.

What the heck are you trying to say? "on site ematches"?

What's your cert level and for how long? Let me guess "I few a C5 once!"

A permit is not required to make and use explosives for your own use. The law appears to favor the ATF when it comes to transport however. I trust you are able to search on "Davey Clone"?

Shall I ""guess"" how many -anything- you've flown this year?

Beg to differ, Woody. I purchase industrial nitrous from a welding supplier. It contains no odorant properties, and is essentially identical to medical nitrous, just comes in a tank without a flow-limiting valve. There is a requirement for locked storage, weekly inventory, and a discharge record, but that's it.

I grant that I had to dance a bit to establish my bona fides (copies of my rocketry cards & driver's license, and a statement of intended use). At this point I simply call and ask them to order a new tank... they don't keep the industrial product on hand, only medical. A few days later and I'm good to go.

Oh, yeah.... $2/lb

Kevin OClassen

PS> that's N20, not NO

None of your reference change the legal position ATF has taken, unless the courts determine otherwise. While I agree that ATF's interpretation is flawed at best, it is still legal in the eyes of the law, until "successfully" challenged in court. The last time I checked, there is no temporary injunction from the court reversing ATF's interpretation.

Fred

David Schultz wrote:

Let me add that given my druthers, I would prefer nitrous with the odorants. It's an excellent leak check and safety device. The only reason I use the industrial is its' price and availability.

Also, the storage and inventory requirements are not specific to nitrous, but apply to about 30 different industrial gases that pose some sort of hazard or can be used in processes illegal or damaging. With N2O I'm told that besides the obvious danger of having some fool kill themselves through "recreational" use, nitrous oxide is used in the manufacture of some explosive compounds (I don't know which, if any, and I don't *want* to know). I can't seem to locate my copy of the sheet, so I can't offer any statutory reference at this time, but I recall the requirements were attributed to "Homeland Security."

Kevin O

Our club buys the N20 that has sulphur dioxide added for around $2.25 a pound from Airgas in 64 lb cylinders. Technically, we bought the tank, but Airgas just swaps tanks when we need a new one. We are on our third or fourth tank as we launch quite a few Hypertech Ms.

Brian Elfert

Yeah, when I inquired at Airgas they told me no problem but only in the big tanks. While I'd love the cost advantage of Airgas + big tanks, I don't like hauling the heavier tanks around. I recently traded down on my O2 tank for easier transport.

FWIW, I consider the odorant a plus also.

The Pratt Canisters are a good alternative.

Yes, I have launched an expensive rocket us> Alex Mericas wrote:

I used to see some morons do it once in a while - not as much anymore. I was more entertained by the result than the flier was. ;-)

Phil

Woody - You could be wrong. Maybe Hyphlight is Hy from sniffin to much NOx.

Phil

If you leave out the odorant, do hybrid motors stop making that farting sound? 8-)

Phil

I never thought about that! Even more reason to keep the odorant!

Our big cylinder stays in the club trailer. Someone donated a cylinder transport cart for use at the launches.

We also have a 20 lb cylinder that we can transfill, but we usually use the big cylinder since we seem to launch mostly M motors that take a lot of nitrous.

Brian Elfert