The Solution To Getting Everybody to Go EV

The Nissan Leaf comes close to meeting that criteria. $28k. It's been in production since 2010. Not a howling success, but neither has it flopped.

I've thought about buying a used one, just to see what they're like.

bob prohaska

"Taking EVs to the next level in enduring extreme temperatures will also require advances in battery technology itself.

Here the outdoor temperature range is -10F to somewhat over 100F on asphalt.

"Also, honestly, I’m mad. I got to a point where I was so frustrated and I would have times when I couldn’t make it to a doctor’s appointment in my EV without relying on public charging, and I, at this point, refused to do that. So, I would take a ride share. I would pay maybe $100 to take a ride share to and from an appointment, because I had lost confidence in my car to make it there, and I just felt like this car is a nice car, I like the car, but it does not have the full utility and convenience of a non-EV."

"I also have to report that since we recorded this conversation with Jack, I bought a new car. Well, a used car actually. I traded my Volkswagen e-Golf for a Volkswagen gas Golf, because what can say? I love a Golf."

Personal efficiency is not in the public interest.

If you remember I worked at Segway, but don't own one. The cost to replace the batteries would buy 10,000 miles of gas for my car. Electricity isn't any greener than the fossil fuel that generates it, and we are very far from depending on solar panels. I try to at home and see the limitations personally. This laptop is on grid power because several days of overcast have depleted my batteries. What's left is for the freezer overnight. I can let the LiFePO4s stay low but the AGMs may sulfate if not recharged soon.

Running on alternate energy makes me the power plant engineer, which certainly isn't for everyone. As a kid we had hand-fired coal heat so I'm used to paying attention to the demands of non-automatic energy. I bought an electrically heated house and installed a wood stove that I could feed for free, the cost being my effort to harvest dead trees from across the street. Keeping up was difficult when I was working and attending night school.

Luckily today has begun sunny. A clear day easily recharges the batteries, hazy or partly cloudy makes that questionable and overcast cuts the output to 10%.

This winter the rate is still over $0.20 per KWH.

My whole thing is there is to be a CHEAP EV for there to be real traction. I don't mean a golf cart or a scooter either. The biggest problem is with all the modern mandatory standards I think its nearly impossible to produce ANY cheap car that isn't a toy.

I don't think the VW ID.1 is cheap enough. There has to be a car the somebody can afford when they get their first pay or second bump above starting wage.

AS Jim alluded to. The problem is mostly economic. I don't think "range anxiety" is the problem for a first car buyer. 155 mile range (ID.1 basic battery) will get must of them to work or to school every day.

Infrastructure might be an issue for some, but many can charge at home.

<snip>

This retrofit is WAY OVER THE TOP... but it's nice to see standard controls, knobs, levers... instead of a TV touch screen to control stuff. They stuck a panel in the dash but kept the standard speedometer beside it🤷️

It would be interesting to see the parts list used for it but I doubt it's available...

Well, like I mentioned in the "practical" EV conversion thread I was told a complete kit including everything including a VCU for a full size truck was $58,000 from one source.

I'm not sure what exactly a VCU (vehicle control unit) does, but it sounds like it might substitute for controlling the vehicle sans motor, inverter, etc core of the conversion. I would think it would interface in place of the oem computers and processors. Its the only thing that makes sense.

That being said a conversion that uses the stock gear box, and has a cable from the transmission could easily use the stock speedometer. Those that use a simple hall sensor, might still be usable with some minor electrical hackery. If it is driven by the vehicle computer like the modern HUD in my F250 then probably not.

"A far larger proportion of Chinese EV buyers are first-time car buyers."

10,000 units sold in one hour in China for $15,000 USD. No mention of offering in any other markets.

I don't think the VW ID.1 is cheap enough. There has to be a car the somebody can afford when they get their first pay or second bump above starting wage. ... Infrastructure might be an issue for some, but many can charge at home.

-------------------------------- There seems to be a contradiction here...

How long do you think Chinese loss-leader EVs will remain cheap once they've crushed the competition, assuming they do better at supplying repair parts than they have with everything else?

If it wasn't for all the big brother MANDATES the USA could build cheap cars too. Remote kill switch, black box recording, etc is not trivial. That doesn't even count the safety standards.

If it wasn't for all the big brother MANDATES the USA could build cheap cars too. Remote kill switch, black box recording, etc is not trivial. That doesn't even count the safety standards.

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As I understand it, a cheap new car can't compete on price with a nicer model used car.

That MAY be true, but it there is no chance in hell of an expensive new car competing with a used car. My first new truck was a GMC Sonoma, and my second was an Chevy S-10.

I've been in the new and used car market for the last year. Dealing with my own stuff, and getting rid of my dad's stuff. I bought a new truck, and was seriously considering buying another one this year. I've even found myself counting days and vehicles to make sure I don't have to get a broker's license. LOL. Fortunately dealer transactions don't count so I am still good.

That MAY be true, but it there is no chance in hell of an expensive new car competing with a used car. My first new truck was a GMC Sonoma, and my second was an Chevy S-10.

------------------------------------------ That depends. I bought and fixed up old cars until I could afford new, then I bought the Helms factory shop manuals and kept them in good condition as long as rust let me. Thanks to MIG I still drive the 1991 Ranger and 2000 CRV. Styling overcame substance on the newer CRVs so I'm waiting for the

2026 Passport which reverts to the old Land-Rover-inspired practicality with squared space replacing swoop, a full sized spare tire and built-in folding picnic table like my mine.

The table is a useful workbench for construction projects at the club's shooting ranges, it keeps us old guys from having to pick tools up off the ground. I bought a spare as a "cargo space floor" from LKQ for $12.

Me too.

67 Ford Cortina GT (4 banger CI unknown) Had a packrat nest between the fender and the battery when I got it. The money in the packrat nest paid for a new battery and some other stuff. There was nothing in particular great about the Cortina despite being a GT. I had been rolled three times before I got it. With 60s on the front and 50s on the rear it was more stable, so instead I caught it on fire... TWICE... I mean smoke and flames on fire. I also torched out the wheel wells so the tires would clear. With two bags of cement in the trunk its was pretty good in the sand, and its 0-60 was quick if you knew how to speed shift and didn't mind pushing redline, but it took forever to get to 80 which was its absolute top speed with a tail wind. There used to be a guy in Phoenix buying them up for some special racing class he was in, but I never connected up with hm. Eventually the junk man got it. 71 Chevy Caprice (400) (fast) Kid overheated it and cracked both heads. I gave him a hundred bucks for it and put mismatched used 350 heads on it. I also had to rebuild the transmission later on, but that didn't last. I left it on a fair grounds in Redlands California. 69 T-Bird 2dr (429) (fast and quick and faster) It was fine until I popped a freeze plug and had to drive 20 miles at a time topping it off with whatever water I could get. At one time I stopped on the freeway grabbed some trash 2 liter bottles laying along the road, climbed over the barb wire fence, and fought my way through the brush, so I could top the radiator up with river water There is a long story there, but I wound up abandoning it in a mall parking lot and catching a bus. Hard corps car guys cry when I tell them that. That was definitely a desirable car. Particularly with the factory 429 Interceptor in it. 71 Dodge Dart (225) (bullet proof) I mean it was tough. After I bought my first truck I tried to kill this car. I had it airborne a couple times. Ran it straight line across the desert without a road. Drove it like I was a Duke boy. Bought it cheap with a "bad" transmission, new filter and fresh fluid and it was fine. The guy I sold it to sold it to a farm laborer who was still driving it around years later. Might still be driving it. 76 Plymouth Volare Wagon (318) This was my first trap line vehicle. I got it stuck a lot until I really learned to drive it. I recall running my traps one day down in the river valley after a rain to stay legal (must check traps every day) and it was nothing but water and mud. I kinda sorta knew where the trail was, but staying on it was a trick. I could atleast see the breaks in the brush lines where the trail was. More than once that day I was flying across a mud flat hammer down aiming at the next bush to be able to make a course correction. I jacked up the torsion springs on the front as far as they would go and put tall shackles on the back for ground clearance and I still tore out the oil pan going into the Gila from Sentinel looking for the old Mormon dam. JB weld is some amazing stuff. It may not seal on an oily surface, but it makes a fair plug to slow the leak. I don't recall having much trouble with this car. I had an ignition issue once that was fixed with a new resistor wire. 71 Plymouth Swinger 318 (Dart with different badging) No engine. I figured if the Dart was so good with a 225 this thing would be a hoot with a 318. I pulled the engine from the station wagon to go in this, and was about to put it in when somebody offered me more for the engine than I paid for both cars. When the junk man bought them it was just bonus money. 76 Ford F150 (360) Complete overhaul and 30 over with RV CAM. Loved it until somebody sideswiped me and cracked the frame... right where the steering gear box bolted on. Power steering went, and I threw an older manual gear box on it. It was fine except it was hard to keep tight over the truss plate holding the frame together. Oh, yeah I straightened the frame before welding by hooking a chain to the frame and the dock bumper on a flat bed truck my dad had and backing up hard. It worked. I towed mobile homes with this thing. I left it at my dad's place, and somebody offered to buy the engine, and somebody offered to buy the cab and somebody else came along and offered to be the bed. By the time the message got to me all three people had cash waiting to hear from me. I told them to work out the break down between and give me the money. If I had to tear it down the price was double. My dad brought me a wad of cash, and it was gone. 80-Something Toyota Celica ST (very agile) Only thing I ever did to it was put a new clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing in it. I did it after sunset by flashlight laying in the dirt with the wind blowing pretty hard on a cold (for here) winter day so I could use it the next day. Used one of my motorcycles to run parts. Don't recall why I didn't use the truck. Maybe because I had about enough money for parts and that F150 sucked gas like crazy. 76 Chevy 2500 (350) This was my first business work truck. Before that I hired a buddy because he had a truck, and I just paid for gas and maintenance. I think the only problem I had with this was the linkage from the key broke inside the column. An employee was driving it and they were 120 miles away when they called me late at night. I got up in the middle of the night and rode my motorcycle out where I got it going again about sunrise by busting open the steering column and clamping a bent steel rod to the linkage. That's the way it got driven until I sold it.

Some Dodge I forget Pickup. It started clacking the day after I bought it, so I threw a for sale sign on it, and the guys who bought it drive it away clacking loudly.

81 (I think) S-10 flatbed. Yeah no kidding. The city was selling off a bunch of trucks at an auction. All had 65-70K miles. I had jobs to finish so I sent my wife and told her to buy me a truck. I was thinking a nice little pickup for a few thousand dollars. She picked that one because it had tool boxes and a ladder rack bolted to the flat bed. I wasn't happy, but it turned out to be a great truck until it blew a hose with an employee driving. He had a service radio. He could have called me right away. He did call me from a truck stop. He said it got hot, and he stopped a soon as he could. We have a beautiful freeway with a wide emergency strip and a gravel strip beyond. His idea of as soon as he could was the next exit... five miles down the freeway. It started to smoke within a month after that. Eventually it smoked so bad I quit using it. Some guys came by my office one day and said they noticed it didn't get used much and asked if I would sell it. I said it got overheated and smoked real bad, so make me an offer. They offered more than I thought it was worth, and I told them to get their tow vehicle. Mileage is not bad as long as you understand that's miles per gallon of engine oil, not gas. One of them walked across the corner to the gas station and came back with a couple gallons of 40wt and they drove it away. 78 Ford F250 (460) Jumped time and bent everything. Reman engine and transmission. Holley 750, adapter plate, headers, RV cam. When I decided to fix the dash lights the gauge cluster just disintegrated in my hands raining gauges and components out on the floor like a hail storm. I still have flash backs of holding what looked like the desicated carcass of an animal in my hands as the the gauges bounced around on the floor. 65 Ford F250 (352 industrial) with steel transmission all the racers wanted. I think the only thing I did to this was rebuild the transmission. I took it to somebody (just the transmission) and they tried to buy it from me three times. Even offered to give me a brand new C6 to replace it plus cash. I parked it with a burst hose, because i had my first new truck by then. Somebody came buy and offered me a bunch of cash for it. Didn't even have a for sale sign on it.

AMC Amabassador - Drove it a lot when I cracked my right wrist. Tended to run hot on long trips, but otherwise it was fine. If I had kept it I have a pressure flushing rig that works on engines and radiators if they aren't totally plugged. I only paid a couple hundred dollars for it. When I quit using it I had it parked on the street, and the city kept giving me a hard time about it. Paint marking my tires, notice on the windshield, & sometimes they would call, etc. I didn't even start it. I just pushed it back and forth a couple feet every few days to get them to leave me alone. I tried to donate it to one of those charities, and they kinda sneered at me, so the next time the city called me I let them take it. Two weeks later that same charity called me back wanting it. I said, "You know when I called you you sneered at me because it wasn't a gold plated Cadillac. I gave it away. don't called me again." To be fair it might have been a desirable collector car because it was a clean, straight, all trim in tact including OEM hub cabs, everything worked, luxury car. I was just to busy contracting to deal with it and the Internet wasn't as good as it is today for getting people and cars they want together.

There were a more. Some I turned over quick. Those are the ones that come to mind.

I don't actually like working on cars. I did it because if I didn't I'd walk. Like a lot of things I do it because it needs to be done.

I always liked the old Motor's manuals, but they quit publishing them back in the late 70s or early 80s. My dad had several and if I can find them they will get added to y shop library. The Chilton manuals were all I knew about when I started working on cars, and they just weren't as good or as a well organized. Later the Hanes manuals aren't bad, but for a lot of things I try to get the factory service manual even if they cost more. Most expensive factory service manual I have is for my 3320 John Deere diesel. I'm not sure I know what a Helm or Helms manual is.

When I say factory I mean factory. Not third party factory. I was turned on to the fact that they exist for many things when I got into Harleys. I had the factory service manual and parts manual for all the Harleys I owned.

We have a lot of rust free chassis and bodies around here. Back about

69-70 my uncle tried to make a business of joining northern engines with southwestern bodies, but he didn't have the capitol for it. Its still a real thing, but to many people "Know what they got" now-a-days.

Tables are just a space suck in my shop. They all have Horizontal Surface Disease. HSD. If I need to use the big welding table the first thing I need to do is schedule myself an afternoon to clean it off.

Tables are just a space suck in my shop. They all have Horizontal Surface Disease. HSD. If I need to use the big welding table the first thing I need to do is schedule myself an afternoon to clean it off. Bob La Londe

------------------------------------ The people across the street used to go through vehicles faster than you did, they picked up cheap or free junkers and raced them through the woods until they had to be dragged out. There were over 40 worthless cars and trucks on the property when the town clamped down on them. Cutting the cars up with acetylene was satisfying fun. They were all or part Native American with their own set of values, which was fine with me, not too different from off grid relatives in the southern mountains except for their cold tolerance.

My active workbench is plywood on the washing machine, which I have to clear off once a week for laundry. Right now it's covered with old electrolytic caps and the power supplies to reform them. Middle sized projects go in the driveway, big ones on the lawn. The sawmill and gantry hoist go wherever the tree fell.

Reminded me of my single days. I used to keep a little over two weeks worth of every day working and going to school clothes in my closet. Once every two weeks I'd go to the 24hr laundromat and use the machines around midnight. I used to go earlier, but single moms would hit on me. One had her kid climb up in my truck to keep me from leaving. I had to threaten to call the cops to get her to back off.

Twenty years ago I leased a Toyota Echo "econo box" that reminded me of the Model "A" I got my license on in 1956. For the last three years I 've needed a degree in Gismology to drive the 2021 Corolla. God knows whats gonna happen Monday when I pick up the 2025 Corolla Cross. We moved up because we needed a step ladder to get out of the current car - told the dealer we wanted to go back to the Echo "Geezermobile". We're both over 80!

I was a bit advanced tech averse myself, but automakers have finally recognized I won't pay a subscription to their service when I have a cell phone. I'm not crazy about Goggle having total access to my location, but Android Auto looks exactly the same on all three vehicles I currently drive regularly. I have navigation on the right and music streaming on the left. Ford, Nissan, & Hyundai. I turn location off on my phone when I know where I am going and how to get there. It complains, but I can flip music to full screen and not see it complain.

Lane assist... meh. Backup cameras I hated for a long time. I learned to use my side mirrors backing a trailer, and backing down a boat ramp at night was annoying as heck when the camera screen popped on and ruined my night vision, but for every things else... I am getting used to it.

One thing about all that tech... there no longer seems to be any kind of base model. This drives up the cost.

I admit it is nice to tap the microphone icon and say, "Text Casey," or "Call Patti." I also recognize Google/Alphabet has more information about me than I like.