club multiple launcher - useful features? (long)

I strongly agree with you.

Remember:

Outdoors. Abused Stored Installed by non-experts Weather

Excellent topic, Dwayne. At my local launch, we used to experience an unintentional launch about 2 or 3 times a year. Our launch systems (low and high power) were different. The big difference was the pad selector switch on the low power pad box looked just like the "fire" switch on the high power system. This year, we got a new box for high power that has the "bloom switch", so now a high power pad is selected and then a fire button is pushed to launch.

I'll see if I can format my comments below without screwing up the format.

steve

Never used it, don't like the idea. I want to be able to slow down or speed up or cancel the countdown at my whim.

Like em. High power at the pads, right?

got me here, I ain't no 'lectrician

must have

must have

The Kansas bunch use this feature. I like it. An easy way to trouble shoot a misfire.

no opinion.

Nice feature, haven't used it, like the idea

My preference

nope

worked as a kid, I don't like the idea for high power and the confusion that can happen around a large launch.

irrelevant

irrelevant

no opinion

removable/replacable is better, no?

jacks is okay

and the Rush Limbaugh show too? Seriously, I don't think it's a good idea to have that much info for the LCO. Maybe have one on site, but have the Weather Officer monitor it at another location, not at the LCO table.

Here's the list I put together when NIRA built its system, which was later refined when we built the NARAM launch system.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Either of these is OK.

necessary both at the pad and at the LCO.

Manditory per the safety code.

Rather hard to implement.

NO.

Annoying.

Yes. We use a spring loaded key switch. (like an auto ignition switch although a cheaper source would be a garden tractor start switch) It takes 2 hands to fire a rocket. One to turn and hold the key, the other to press the launch button.

No.

No.

If this is a multi pad club launcher then this isn't that big an issue. In fact, if you could make it the size of a deck of playing cards, it would be too small to be functional. I like the sloped instrument consoles. We got one with a almost vertical panel for the displays, and almost horizontal section for the pad select knob, safety key, and launch button.

Again, not that critical. It better be strong enough to take years of abuse.

Not sure what this is. Make sure that ignitor leads use connectors rated for high current. i.e. NOT phono plugs! My preference is dual banana jacks and plugs.

NO! Makes it rather difficult to replace bad or worn out wires on the field.

???

Fluff. I've got an FRS radio that gets the weather broadcasts. I also get the FAA forcast from 1-800-WX-BRIEF which is the only place I know to get winds aloft data.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

No, it's not.

NAR: "My launch system will have a safety interlock in series with the launch switch, and will use a launch switch that returns to the "off" position when released. "

Joel. phx

As an example of what can be done, I recommend looking at the 32-pad controller on this page:

Bill the Geek

I don't see a problem with an automated countdown as long as you still have to enable the actual launch with a switch (or better still 2 switches) that returns to the off position when released. You have to be able to abort at any time during the count. A consistent countdown from launch to launch would be great for photographers.

Mario Perdue NAR #22012 Sr. L2 for email drop the planet

"X-ray-Delta-One, this is Mission Control, two-one-five-six, transmission concluded."

I could see this working with a momentary switch that has to be held down to run the sequence... if you release it before "time zero", the whole thing resets, and starts from 5 seconds again the next time.

-dave w

One potential problem with an automated countdown is that there are occasionally some flights that need a longer countdown. For instance, to give the guy starting the onboard camera time to get clear of the pad. :) Or launching one rocket a half-second before another rocket, etc.

Except for rocketeers who NEED supervision, RACKS SUCK.

Do TRA L3 members need supervision?

Jerry

per NAR #002

Hi Bob,

Thanks kindly for your most excellent reference document and for your feature remarks.

The safety key issues are interesting. The momentary-on keylock switch fixes many problems, now that you've got me thinking about it. Momentary-on provides a deadman switch functionality that should eliminate most accidental launches.

I'm still puzzling a bit about ignitor lead connections. Dual banana jacks certainly fill the bill for cheapness and current ratings. If someone trips over the leads, the leads pop out (hopefully) instead of pulling the console off the LCO's table. Looks good for misfire alley, but not so good for the dreaded racks.

Thanks again, Dwayne Surdu-Miller SAROS #1

But provides no 'safety' for wiring or mechanical shorts in a relay type system.

Joel. phx

Thanks kindly for your responses. You've brought up some interesting things to think about.

Switch confusion is a nasty thing. It's a problem to watch out for.

Maximizing power at the pads is something I remember Centuri working away at. They liked to have the battery incorporated into the launch pad for minimal power paths. If something goes wrong, though, it usually goes wrong way out there at the pad. Give and take, I guess.

Reducing the LCO's load is certainly something to consider. If we had a portable weather station on hand, it should be put elsewhere.

again, thanks kindly, Dwayne Surdu-Miller SAROS #1

Thanks kindly for the link Bill.

John DeMar's R&D report appears packed with interesting ideas to work from. Lots of thought is bundled in this.

Using 120V power cords to connect pad controllers to the launch controller is interesting, though might be a bit pricey depending on part sources. I wonder how the pinout was determined.

Dwayne Surdu-Miller SAROS #1

I beg forgiveness. While I tend to think and say "key" any removable device is OK. My own relay launcher uses a shorted mini plug for the safety "key".

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

OK, I'll buy that.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Good point, Joel.

I guess using local and remote relays would be good for better power distribution while reducing launch controller power handling requirements, but how do you make sure that the relays are "safed"?

For remote relays, do you need latching safety keys (like phone plugs, latching keylocks, pieces o' metal) and, maybe, remote indicators telling the LCO and the people at the launch pad whether there is power at the pad?

For local relays, do you need the same kinds of things?

Dwayne Surdu-Miller SAROS #1

Hmmm.... mebee need a programmable counter-downer?

The features, they be a creepin' :-)

Dwayne Surdu-Miller SAROS #1

These days we build launch systems as a multi box system.

At the LCO table is ONE (and ONLY ONE) box. IT contains pad select, continuity displays, arming key and fire button.

A long cable goes to what we call the "spider box". This is where the guts of the system reside. Battery, relays or FETs, and cables to each pad.

From the spider, a cable goes to each pad box. These are small boxes with continuity check and jack for the clip leads. The box is on or near each launch pad. Where needed, the box also includes a relay and power source for the pad. Short (2-10') leads go to the clips.

For the "dreaded rack" we run a multi conductor cable to the rack, then have the same little boxes for continuity check with clip leads plugged in.

In all cases, the places the wires are strung are part of the "no mans land" where no one should be walking inthe first place.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Yeah, it simply says "safety interlock in series"... sounds like any device which will disconnect the firing power meets the requirement.

-dave w