I noticed on the saverocketrynow website that the raffle prizes have been distributed into 23 prizes. I don't think anyone has complained yet, so I'll start :-)
Can someone explain the logic of that? It seems that we could make a lot more people happier with that long list of prizes. Why does it makes sense to take the $12,500 top prize, and add to it $3000 worth of other good stuff? I would have made100 or 150 prize groups, rather than 23. Give the average donor at least a 10% chance. Bigger bang for the buck, and all that.
Sure, sure people who donated should feel good about it even if there wasn't a raffle. But that doesn't mean that the raffle shouldn't be done right.
If they are only giving out 23 prizes then I was lied to. They clearly stated over and over again how good the chances were of winning a prize since there were so many prize donors.
I would have given anyway but if they change the rules now that is going to be a real pisser.
I stronlgy urged and suggested they do a phase 2 raffle to raise another chunk of money for the far more effective print campaign.
The winners are likely t oauction off their excess prizes and soften the market for commercial sales at this point.
You would make sense, they would not.
My 10-9-03 emailtothe leaders:
Raffle X $ of prizes in the first round, not "all" just because you can. Judge X based on something like y% of raised funds, like 30-50% is about right, then start another raffle and an auction right away.
I was party to Tripoli's FIRST raffle and MANY before that in model rocket clubs. You have to have a "prize shortage" to make it work best.
Since you do NOT have a prize shortage, then you need to generate one by spreading the prizes over several raffles.
Some prizes like the $12,500 recovery system is so specialized it needs to be auctioned.
Jerry
Have I *ever* been wrong and not had it corrected within 24 hours?
There are a lot more than 23 prizes. There are 23 "groups" of prizes. Some of the groups contain as much as $15,000 worth of merchandise. So I don't believe you were "lied to". You just may not have the odds of winning that you thought.
I agree, I don't understand and it's not what I was lead to belive via web pages. I was understaning hunderends would be able to win, that's why I donated a prize.
I agree.... there needs to be a Top 5 prize package then all the items remaining should be raffled Individually. Ill see Frank this weekend and voice my displeasure.
I agree.... there needs to be a Top 5 prize package then all the items remaining should be raffled Individually. Ill see Frank this weekend and voice my displeasure.
Be so kind as to remind him of my positive alternative email.
"" Raffle X $ of prizes in the first round, not "all" just because you can. Judge X based on something like y% of raised funds, like 30-50% is about right, then start another raffle and an auction right away.
I was party to Tripoli's FIRST raffle and MANY before that in model rocket clubs. You have to have a "prize shortage" to make it work best.
Since you do NOT have a prize shortage, then you need to generate one by spreading the prizes over several raffles.
Some prizes like the $12,500 recovery system is so specialized it needs to be auctioned.
Screwed again, huh? Well, it's not the first time.
I have seen this done before. It makes for less work for the organizers and keeps shipping costs down as well. It is a really BAD decision. Really BAD. Now, let's think about this for a minute. Let's gather ALL of the prizes into ONE super prize. One guy wins $100,000 worth of rocketry prizes. That guy is really, really happy. Is he likely to pony up again next time money is needed? Sure thing (although he probably thinks his chances of winning another $100K prize is pretty slim). How about the others who plonked down their $100 on the assumption that they had a good chance of winning? NOT LIKELY. Boink. You just shot yourself in the foot. In fact, you just shot your whole leg right off at the hip. There will be those that have contributed for the good of rocketry, but let's not fool ourselves here. Most have contributed for the raffle prizes. It is a big enticement. (I am sorely disappointed at those that never, ever reach into their pockets or devote a minute of their precious time for the betterment of the hobby.... they are 'takers' - but that's a topic for another day).
If you will excuse the pun, this is NOT rocket science. Each prize should be raffled off individually. ONE AT A TIME. Build a larger base of loyal benefactors. Entice more to invest in raffle tickets in future.
Just take a look at the hospital raffles in our area. The hospitals were having big trouble raising money so they came up with the idea of a "super raffle". Hundreds of prizes. Hundreds and hundreds. Ticket price? $100 each. The tickets are sold out months before the raffle.
If I may be so bold as to suggest (if the organizers are on this news group).... raffle off the prizes individually. ONE AT A TIME. Have a HUGE list of winners. Publish the entire list of winners everywhere you can. Next time you need to raise money you will have both the existing customers PLUS those that didn't buy tickets lined up, cash in hand.
We rocketeers seem to have a penchant for shooting ourselves in the foot. Over and over and over again. If anything kills this hobby it will be the bad decisiions that we make with great ideas. It will be those of us that are "takers" and never contribute a thing to the betterment of the hobby.
We don't need the BATFE to kill our hobby. Left to our own devices, we are quite capable of doing that on our own.
It's not like this logic has not been presented to the organizers.
They are also acting like TRA people in a variety of other back room ways not consistent with the statement this was a rocket agnostic effort.
Nobody is perfect. Some are simply less perfect and responsive and listening than others.
With all due respect that is the most common MO of all managers in HPR today. It is a cultural defect that seems engrained and unchangable.
I might actually disagree there.
That's what I said about 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 and even WITH both NAR and TRA filing a lawsuit relying almost entirely on it, neither them nor their members are willing to act like it ever existed at all.
There is a learning disability at work here. One that cannot be overcome or corrected. Sorry. Fact.
Or have a SECOND raffle even!!
THAT would require forsight and some semblence of business accumen. Have you detected any?
I VERY STRONGLY AGREE WITH YOU.
You said that already. Be sure it will be ignored the first time. Or acknowledged and set aside with a single sentence.
Gee, have I ever said that in the past 10 years with dozens of examples one after another?
It is culturally engrained now. GFL changing it. I bet you $1000 in raffle you cannot make it happen.
Um, is there an echo in this room that is 10 years old?
What the hell is this all about????? I guess I missed the previous posts.
When I dontated to the raffle the talk was that there would be one big prize that went to the winner then maybe some consalation prizes.
So they got alot of donations for the raffle. Maybe next time it would be better that there are less donations, maybe they should set a limit. This way the winners don't win that much, after all we dont want them to feel like winners do we.
So some people feel that there were enough prizes to go around. And maybe if they were spread around enough they would have got something.
And for a minuite there I had high regards for this hobby and the people in it. How many of these people would take $$ from the ATF to help assemble their J350's?
I would also agree with you. I certainly do not have a problem donating the money, but it would have been nicer if I know the odds were a little better for more people to get something in return. I just lost my Aerotech HV Arcas in the woods.....I'd even be happy to get that replaced:-).
I agree! I feel screwed and misled too. If the organizers go ahead with their intended plan it's us, not ATFE, that will destroy HPR. I contributed to help rocketry, but I contributed more than my income allows because I really thought I had a chance of winning at least a small prize. Now it's become like the raffle that sells $100 tickets for a chance to win one Corvette. But that's not the type of raffle the SRN website led me to believe this was. Give prizes to lot's of rocketeers so we feel positive about the sport and the attempts to save it. Otherwise we really are our own worst enemy. Larry Lobdell Jr.
Doing each item separately is a mistake, IMNSHO. In addition, it goes against the information initially made available, which very clearly indicated that the items would be raffled off in prize "lots".
My GUESS is that the total dollar value of the items exceeded the expectations of those setting up the raffle, and thus the reason that the dollar value of the "lots" is so high.
Me? I donated because I care about the hobby. Even without the raffle, I would've donated. And considering that we've got around $2,000 in medical bills coming, that $100 didn't come easily. But it was important, so we decided to donate.
I'd like to see it spread out a smidge more, but even if left the way it is, I'll be happy. Even if I don't win anything.
Hear, Hear! I, too, donated because I thought the idea was worth pursuing, not because I expected to get something out of it. (Other than the satisfaction that I'd done the Right Thing, of course...) Winning a raffle prize will be icing on the cake.
If you wanted to help rocketry, *and* definitely get something out of it, you should have used the money to buy something from a vendor. ;-)
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