Save Rocketry Now Prizes-Again

Once again I find it necessary to make a public posting trying to get Jerry Irvine to delivery on a prize that I won in the Save Rocketry
Now raffle. Here's the text of the last exchange by us on RMR:
wrote:

I don't have a problem with the 2/10/06 shipping date. My complaint was that you never answered the 6 emails I sent asking if you had a shipping date.
Bill Spadafora http://home.att.net/~billspad or http://www.billsplumbing.com or NARTS http://www.nar.org/NARTS/cat.html snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com
Guess what? I still haven't gotten the damn kit and he still doesn' t answer my email. I honestly wish I hadn't won it and next time I'll just send the money directly to the NAR instead of finding it necessary to join the Jerry bashers on RMR. However, this doesn't mean I plan to give up.
Bill Spadafora http://home.att.net/~billspad or http://www.billsplumbing.com or NARTS http://www.nar.org/NARTS/cat.html snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com
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Maybe it makes you feel better (which is sad), but it is never NECESSARY to stoop to Jerry's level (ie, make a public posting to solve a private matter).
-- David

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Really? You mean it won't do any good to help warn newbies to the group about how dealing with Jerry is a crap shoot?
I didn't see him stooping to Jerry's level -- the worst I saw him post using profanity was to say "damn kit". He didn't call Jerry any names. He didn't promise anything he couldn't deliver. He didn't threaten Jerry with a lawsuit.
I'm really trying to understand, what about this post was out of place???
David Erbas-White
David wrote:

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wrote:

No, it doesn't make me feel better and no, it isn't a private matter. On April 4, 2005 the raffle was announced publicly on this group and Jerry publicly announced his support for it and talked about what he was donating. When the kit shows up I will be more than happy to publicly announce that.
Bill Spadafora http://home.att.net/~billspad or http://www.billsplumbing.com or NARTS http://www.nar.org/NARTS/cat.html snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com
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@nomatech.com says...

It's a public service announcement...no stooping involved.
--
Tweak

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What do the people who run the contest say? It seems to me that they should have an obligation to see that the prizes they awarded are delivered, or an alternative prize is offered.
There have been a lot of problems with prize delivery from the "saverocketrynow" raffle. It seems to me that the next raffle should have the prizes collected by those running the raffle, and shipped to the prize winner by the raffle, not the vendor.
Glen Overby
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On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:40:15 -0600, Glen Overby

Considering that the people putting on the raffel get nothing (monitatily) out of it, I wouldn't expect them to do any of the above.
When is the last time anyone has heard from Jerry? Maybe he's on a rock pile working off that 40 grand he owes the man.
Anyway, You guys can bitch all you want. Bottom line is that Jerry will give it to you if he can adn if he feels like it.
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Ironically, his RMR posts stopped just before the judges announced their ruling in the BATFE case. I'm still waiting for Jerry's "ITYS" response.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
  Click to see the full signature.
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Glen Overby wrote:

That would be me, and the challenge is that another vendor would have to step up and offer something else in its place. I took the donors at their word that they'd make good on what they promised. Thus far, Mr irvine seems to be the problem child, and unfortunately, he has a history of doing so.
I'll be quite honest, my initial inclination was, based on knowledge of past problems, to decline his donation. Knowing that he'd martyr himself over that, as well as wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, I accepted it. My mistake.

Hardly "a lot". Some folks have had a challenge getting in touch with a vendor or two, but as far as I know, the only donor who has been a continual problem has been Mr irvine.
Next raffle I'm involved in won't accept donations from irvine; I've had enough.
In regards to collecting all the prizes, that was considered, but was not done for a number of reasons. First and foremost, that means someone has to collect and store all the prizes until it is time to distribute them. That's a LOT of stuff and would take up a LOT of room; very few could manage it all in space they have available.
Then, once distribution time comes around, it would require utilizing monies collected via the raffle to not only acquire packing materials, but also to ship the prizes out. Every dollar spent there is a dollar less to the legal fund. Look at the list of prizes, and you'll realize just how much that would come to.
Equally as important is the fact that some folks donated items that require special shipping documents. I cannot (and will not) ship those, as I don't have the requisite permits to do so, nor does anyone available to me locally.
Also, what happens when something gets lost or damaged in transit? With the donor knowing the condition in which it was shipped out, if they ship directly to the recipient, they know all of what happened. If I ship, now we have them (legitimately) wondering if it was possibly due to someone else improperly packaging the item for transit.
Overall, it becomes a logistical nightmare. If the raffle was being held at a launch, or similar event, it makes complete sense to collect the prizes centrally in advance. When they're being mailed out, it just isn't realistic, nor does it make sense financially.
All that said, as I've stated, there is one donor who has been a problem. As far as I am aware, that is it. Nobody else has created these kinds of issues.
-Kevin
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Well after reading this thread and hearing the negative posts about Mr. Irvines problems with customer support, I would like to offer a possible alternative solution. Newton's 3rd Rocketry would be happy to substitute a Little Johnny Rocket (Yep the ORIGINAL flying outhouse) for the kit that was not forthcoming. If the person in question would contact me I can make arraingements. Save Rocketry Now was just too important a cause to let the shortcomings of a vendor detract from the great work done by the people responsible for the effort.
Mike Roland Newton's 3rd Rocketry http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com
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N3 wrote:

Very cool, and I thank you for the offer.
I'll email you Bill's contact info.
-Kevin
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This is a very nice offer. It will be remembered!
Maybe for the next raffle, a "flying outhouse" kit that ejects a small voodoo doll of JI at apogee could be developed? It would be a hit!
The Voodoo doll should be wearing a "RMR t-shirt"! (if you don't know about the t-shirt debacle, you don't know JI!)

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I bid 50 quatloos for the "Jerry Can" :-)
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
  Click to see the full signature.
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Yeah, it's sad. Been a while now too.

Actually she had quite a few roles not to mention Playboy.
Randy www.vernarockets.com
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I answered Mike in private but I want to make it know here that I appreciate his offer but my problems are not with Save Rocketry Now, they're with Jerry Irvine and I want to see him honor the commitment he made.

Bill Spadafora http://home.att.net/~billspad or http://www.billsplumbing.com or NARTS http://www.nar.org/NARTS/cat.html snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com
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That's very kind of you. Hopefully people will keep this in mind when they are looking to buy stuff.
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Kevin Trojanowski wrote:

And let me again thank you for the effort you put into all of this. You may not have gotten too many attaboys, but please accept one from me!
David Erbas-White
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David Erbas-White wrote:

Thanks, David, it's appreciated.
-Kevin
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____________________________________
Although I certainly understand the frustration of having to deal with one recalcitrant vendor, I think it bears repeating that the vast majority (as far as I know all with the exception of Jerry) of vendors came through as promised and in a timely manner. My own experience with Skyripper couldn't have been better.
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Kevin, I myself never said it before, but I would like to publicly thank you myself for what you did with Save Rocketry Now, but also for standing up for us guys who have had to deal with Jerry.
Richard

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