Ellis H48

Only the 8 & P were certified, apparently.

Even the Ellis Mountain website only lists the 8 & P.

-Kevin

That's all I could find too. It appears that Ellis shipped an H48-4 to a reputable dealer who asked never to be sent uncertified motors. He didn't check, the flyer didn't check and the RSO didn't check. If the flight hadn't gone bad nobody would have noticed. The LCO (me) can picture the legal mess he'd be in if somebody got hurt.

Bill Spadafora

or or NARTS snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com

What went bad in the flight ? an 8sec delay in the 4 sec motor ?

The motor was marginal for the rocket it was in, it chuffed at ignition, the thrust was vectored off the axis of the rocket and the ejection charge apparently never fired. All that resulted in the rocket impacting near a house outside the field.

Bill Spadafora

or or NARTS snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com

Along the lines of "fun with H48s" there is a certain vendor with lists of folks who've certified with his kits. Said vendor also happens to do the Ellis Mountain website.

Guess what he has someone down as certifying with? Ellis Mountain H48-10.

Um, hello? You can't certify with that motor, it's not a certified motor.....

-Kevin

1) Who was this reputable dealer? 2) Are you sure he didn't specifically ask for H48-4s? 3) When you say the motor was marginal - was that Ellis' fault or did you have it in a rocket that was too big or heavy for a low thrust long burn motor? 4) Apparently the ejection charge never fired - presumably you recovered the rocket - did it fire or did it not? Ought to be able to tell by inspection 5) What kind of sim did you run on the rocket before launching it on an H48 - wouldn't you see that there was no certified 4 second delay?

Just wondering....

Kev,

Better look out now. You mighta just earned a spot on Texas' most notorious blog :)

Doug

Thank god the motor was Tripoli certified!

"I did therefore I can."

I'd rather not mention the dealer but he says he specifically asked Ellis not to send him anything uncertified. Evidently he's been offered "new" motors in the past.

It wasn't my rocket but the flyer provided us with the numbers from the simulation after the fact. His top of the rod velocity was 44 fps which is cutting it a little close. One of our members happened to shoot some really incredible pictures of the flight. The exhaust from the motor is clearly off the axis of the rocket slightly.

I didn't personally inspect the wreckage but I was told there was still black powder in the motor.

I believe he used Rocksim. Bill Spadafora

or or NARTS snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net snipped-for-privacy@billsplumbing.com

Thanks Bill. From firsthand knowledge I have found this hobby to be too full of false rumor and misstated or omitted facts, so I don't always take reports at face value without more info and sometimes even then.

From what you have said, I would say shame on everybody.

Shame on Ellis IF he didn't make it clear to the dealer that it was not certified (he may have, may have not - I certainly wouldn't expect the dealer to fess up that he knowingly ordered uncertified motors after a mishap)

Shame on the dealer for ordering uncertified motors (Since these aren't on anybodys website or order form, he either had to ask or be offered, and given this hobby, the first thing I would ask is Is it certified? Even then I would check so I wouldn't get stuck with inventory. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...).

Shame on the flyer - the sim showing no delays (current Rocksim eng file) didn't raise suspicions to make him look? Don't know his rocket parameters but this motor has a peak thrust less than the "new, reduced total impulse" Aerotech G80. Maybe the wrong motor, despite the sim.

In any event, thanks, and post the pics or point to them. Love to see em.

Interesting observation from a "reliable" source.

Jerry

"Bad news - you have to buy it from Jerry - cash in advance."

- LIAR Phil Stein

I strongly agree.

Nope. Sometimes manufacturers just put extra items in either in addition or to exchange for a short item.

Come on - even you have to admit that's funny weather it's true or not.