Electronics projects for Rocketry

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:37 -0600, "tater schuld"
Been there, done that. Couple of times, in snow.

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802.11g?
Local area radio transmission?
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

Wireless LAN? I'm *not* going to try to wrap my brain around the nuances of TCP/IP programming. :-P
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wrote:

802.11b is better, more range, besides you dont need the extra bandwidth. There are Ethernet to binary adapters, plug and play as they were.
Or just get a LINX transceiver from Digikey. I will get one for my Hybrid launch system. Currently running RS-232, the tranceiver will be a drop in replacement for the wire.
RDH8
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:26:45 GMT, "Robert DeHate"

I considered this. I used a Linx 433-Mhz transmitter for a radio-tracking beacon I built. So I started looking at the specs for their 900-Mhz models.
Their biggest drawback is lack of effective range. Their 'advertised' maximum range is 1000 feet - I'd expect that practical issues would limit that to 750 or so. A broadband-RF amplifier could boost that range by (possibly) a factor of 5, making the range approximately 3800 feet. If I'm not mistaken, some of the larger launches in the southwestern States place away pads over a mile from the RSO/LCO setup. In order to accomodate that, the range has to be extended significantly.
I want to stay away from directional antennas, since they would limit placement of the distribution boxes.
OTOH - if I design the system with a modular, plug-in communications card, I can set it up to work as a wired, short-range wireless, or long-range wireless system. The only difference would be the way continuity-signal quality is reported... and that might be changed anyway. :-)
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snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAM.rogers.com (Len Lekx) wrote:

Nothing wrong with that for a misfire alley or even a torture racklaunch range.

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

Jerry,
What is the torture-rack launch range?
Thanks, Patrick - some of my rockets have Evil Twins!!!
--
Patrick Harvey
NAR 81752 L2
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G Harry Stine, founder of NAR and author of the bible of model rocketry (hereafter referred to as "GOD"), "The Handbook of Model Rocketry" recommended this format:
http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/MisfireAlleyRange.gif
Tripoli and NAR typically use a centrally controlled range set-up in principal like this at group launches. A "Torture Rack" refers to the fact you have to wait till every rocket is ready to launch the first one and you have to wait till the last rocket is launched or misfired to recycle the pads. The bigger the launch the longer the wait. At LDRS launches I have attended, average wait time is 2 hours, and 4 hours is fairly common.
http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/SatMisfireAlleyRange.gif
It is interesting to see the total void of logic and reason applied to TRA offset distances as well. Real brain surgeons and rocket scientists, these ones are :)
http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/SitePlacement.gif
Rack is great for a football halftime show or retail store flight demo where the whole purpose is to sequence the rockets with the narration or the music, but for a group launch with hundreds of heterogenous rockets, misfire alley is the ONLY way to go and allows use of your own pad. In fact encourages it.
It is important to note that TRA and NAR have refused to release torture racks from their cold dead fingers for the past 10 years. Learning disabilities extreme.
Just TECH Jerry
Valuable content generator.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

So in all but one or two sites it would be perfect then. And so the exception can be either a directional antenna or someone with a HAM license. Seems reasonable to me, especially if you are just making one for yourself and not making them commercially.
And if you are making them commercially then the antenna would be an added income for you.
RDH8
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:45:38 GMT, "Robert DeHate"

Yeah, I guess. I never thought of it *that* way... :-)

Good point - since this *is* only supposed to be a 'one-of' type thing. But... if I can spark enough interest in it, I might be tempted to go into custom-built thing for clubs.
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Len, Make the controll end and leave the wireless transmission to their discression. Give ideas like short range linx gear or more pricy stuff.
TX/RX is easy if you have the gear to feed it the signals.
RDH8
wrote:

yourself
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:58:03 GMT, "Robert DeHate"

I'd do that anyway. :-) But if I do it that way, I'd like to be sure that I offer suggestions that *work*... and that means testing them out myself first.

... and if the data isn't "reconstructed" into some other format. ;-)
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so get the ham liscence! a bit harder than the level 2 HPR test, but not much moreso.....
plus you can do all sorts of cool radio/rocket stuff
and talk to the ISS
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Tater Schuld) wrote in message

Howabout various sensor projects?
3-axis magnetometry UV and IR backskatter detectors Particle, gamma, and x-ray counters/detectors atmospheric molecular species sensors (CO2, CO, Methane, etc, etc) pressure sensors temperature sensors
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here's some ideas
- LEDs and flashing circuits for night launch rockets. simple, fun, crowd pleasing. there's plenty of LED flasher kits available but nothing special for rockets.
how about one of those magic wands that spells out a message when you wave it? put one on the side of the rocket and "HI MOM!" or "FUBATF" or whatever.
- and, how about a battery that can power LEDs for a short while but weighs a lot less than a 50 gram 9V? maybe rechargeable too?
9V are typically rated for about an amp-hour. the LEDs don't need to flash for hours, they need to flash for 15 minutes on the pad and < 2 minutes of launch and recovery.
- model/MPR/HPR flight capable fuel cells?
- general purpose telemetry unit that does not require a ham license to use?
- general purpose video & sound memory recorder... say, NTSC composite in, stores it in some kind of very robust semiconductor memory.
for that matter, make a general purpose data recorder! maybe 10Mb bandwidth, allocated in up to 10? channels? records for a minute. unit survives and data is retrievable even after power failure, hard landings, etc.
- yesterday the JDR catalog arrived and it has a $50 micro-radar kit. that got me thinking, hmmm, how about a landing deployment system that works at configurable AGL. that would be great for popping out the legs of a mars lander ... or deploying an airbag with a rover in it ... or or or !
- does anyone have a clip system that will detach at launch? what I was thinking for my "Jupiter Icy Moon Orbiter" was, put an SCR on the 12v ignitor power from the LCO. then the "ion thruster" blue LEDs would light up when you push the button. put a short delay timer on the real ignitor wires and then you could "power up" the rocket in stages.
so, is there a reliable, serviceable, lightweight quick disconnect connector system that might be appropriate for model/MPR/HPR rockets?
... I think I have seen pictures of a hybrid NOX connector that blows off at launch...
- I like your ion drive project!!!
Tater Schuld wrote:

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Yes.
Yes
And a ground based radar rocket speed and position sensor.

I find it to be relatively low priority.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

this would be relatively easy to do and would sell for around $100. so we could sell a couple dozen to the remaining high power enthusiasts :P woo hoo

the Jameco kit tracks to "200 mph" but I am sure that can be hacked. it even has a sound output so you can hear the Doppler.

... me too since it has NO use in atmospheric conditions and anyways whaddaya gonna do with what 1/2 Newton for 2 years ... but it's fun to think about.
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Sounds like the solar project I was working on, but if your powering LED's I assume its a night launch.

use?
I have 3, flown the low power model, have yet to fly the others.

I have one of these in the works too. If I can just nail the issues I have with downloading EEPROM data through a 1-wire network to Windows 98 then I would get some time to work on this. Its 32Meg, samples at 1kHz and non-volitile. Currently only 4channels, pressure and 3axis acceleration but its expandable.

Just use some thermalite, have the igniter light that , gives you your delay before ignition.
RDH8
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Tater Schuld wrote:

IR datalink? Maybe for remote recovery system arming/safing?
I've also seen IR security detection systems trigger at pretty long distances. (Or a small laser rangefinder?) For a last ditch deployment back-up. (IF [(NC still on) AND (ground detect)] THEN (panic))
High voltage igniters versus high current ones, ie, spark based? Thinking of a piezoelectric butane lighter fired spud gun, er, laundry cannon, I saw once at Lake Powell. No batteries required. Anyone tried to light pyrogen with a spark? On purpose, that is. ;)
Remote rod launch angle slewing for that last second spot landing or thermal correction?
Launch rod/rail/tower velocity measurements, maybe LED timing circuits? A loud tone (locator beacon) might also be used for doppler velocity measurements coming off, or near, the rod/rail. Anyone know the audible frequency spectrum of AP or BP motors?
--
Gary Bolles
NAR 82636
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Modular data recorder: pressure altitude, acceleration, temperature (small NTC thermistor which can be mounted outboard), rate gyro(s), all sending units can be added independently as budget allows, data is recorded to an eeprom at 10 Hz? (20 Hz? Hz donut?)

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