I have a friend that is working on an Estes Saturn 5 kit and needed to know if there was a special way to rig to upper stage to land on its side during recovery rather than having it land nose down. If anyone has the original instructions or can help with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Tony
The way Centuri did it was from the center eject point screw eye to the command module nose cone insertion point with a strong string, like carpet thread.
That's the way it's suppose to land. You run a lanyard from the bottom of the upper stage to the escape tower, and attach the chute to the lanyard. That way, it comes down sideways.
-- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1
I would love to see it! I wonder how many times this has been done, and what techniques were used (for staging ignition, stabilization, stage recovery, etc.).
Anyone have any anecdotes to share?
All points we've been pondering.
I've been wanting to try it for about 5 years. Verna picked up a Saturn V in the last Hobby Lobby 1/2 off sale, so we finally committed to try it. I still have 4 more kits unopened, so it's not like it would kill us if all fails. : )
We're drawing up our modifications and the gathering the extra parts. The only thing that worries me is the distance between the 1st and 2nd stage sets of engines. It looks like it could be as much as something between
10-12". The 2nd to 3rd stage will of course be closer. And that depends on where we cut the bt. I've been thinking about 1st to 2nd stage, about 2/3 of the way up the normal build1st stage, at the top of the first set of wraps. That's approx. 16" up the bt.The 2nd to 3rd, where the upper stage on the regular build normally breaks. The 3rd stage would break in half and recover on a 12" chute.
The safety code may get bent somewhat, but we're wrestleing with how to try and adhere to the safety code (as much as possible) and have some form of recovery for all 3 stages. I've been thinking streamers for the 1st and 2nd, with a small chute for the 3rd.
Then there is the problem of building it to where it will be reusable and keeping the 2nd stage from toasting the 1st stage and so on... IF... we get ignition on the upper stages. I've had decent luck with over a coating hot points lightly with yellow glue on other projects. Maybe gluing on some aluminum foil?
Since our 5 engine cluster flys great with a central D and 4 C's, I considered that for the 1st stage, but have about decided that it might be better to go with all C6-0's on the 1st stage, rather than mixing engine sizes for a staged event. I still have to play with the estimated over all weight, which I think should be around 20oz. The 5 engine cluster has 3.5 ounces of lead in the nose, so I have a little room to play with.
Like most of you, at first, my head tells me 5 C's are cutting it close for having enough speed off the rod but I thought maybe a 5', 3/16ths rod, will keep it within the safety limits, since the 3' , 3/16ths rod we launch with now, normally handles the 5 engine version with no problem. Actually, the 3' may be ok for this too.
I think we'd be ok with 5 C's, if we keep the weight to 20-21 ounces, because.... 5 C's, is 0.8 newtons more, than the 1 D and 4 A cluster we've been flying. Actually, 1 D and 4 A's, gets off the rod at a decent rate and is much more realistic. Of course, we could go with 5 D's on the 1st stage but then we'd be staging to 5 C's, with alot more pressure to vent. I am going to try to put make some sort of "small bell" around the engine tubes where each stage meet and vent everything.
The 2nd stage could be B6-0's but I have a couple dozen A8-0's still in the package as another option.
The third stage will be an A8-3. No escape tower on this one. : )
I'm thinking we might need some smaller fins on the upper 2 stages, about half the size of the ones on the bottom fins, to keep it stable, should we manage to get that far. Or, would upper fins really be necessary?
We realize the whole project will be a huge gamble and many things could go wrong. We also know it's pushing the envelope with the "code" a bit and would probably be excluded from a sanctioned launch. We would never ask to fly anything at a launch that would create a problem for anyone(club, RSO, spectators, etc.) or that would be a danger to others. When it's finally launched, it will be at a remote field in the middle of nowhere, with only a very few experienced flyers, (my grown, experienced kids) and the 35mm and movie cameras there.
So..... how about some feed back. Give us your ideas. ALL constructive comments are more than welcome.
Randy
P.S. Since this is primarily Verna's project, be kind. She's not as used to you guys as I am ; )
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