[F-FT] Level 1 rocket

What recommendations to folks have for a mid-power rocket that could also be used as a Level 1 certification rocket? Any pros/cons of your
suggested model would be appreciated.
Since NSL is near me this year, I might do it just to have 'done' it, but I do mostly mid-power these days.
David Erbas-White
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If you pick a 4" rocket like a LOC-IV or something similar you can fly it on a wide range of motors from a G64 on up.
Les.

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It's not much of a lob, but a LOC-IV will fly on an F50 or similar.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
People who exercise their embryonic freedom day after day, little by little, expand that freedom. People who do not will find that it withers until they are literally "being lived." They are acting out scripts written by parents, associates, and society. --Stephen R. Covey
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David Erbas-White wrote:

LOC has a number of kits that would work quite well. Some of the smaller BSD kits also come to mind.
-Kevin
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I modified an aerotech barracuda to have a longer 29mm motor mount with no thurst ring, and I routinely fly it on anything from an F24 to an H180. I also have a PML Black Brant VB that I fly on everything from an F40 to an I211. Overall, I think you have lots of choices for rockets that would fly on E-H or F-I motors.
Here are some of my personal opinions of the pros and cons:
Aerotech - base rocket is often cheaper. Easy to modify for longer 29mm motors. Mirage, Sumo and G Force also easy to modify for 38mm motor mount. Cardboard is a bit thinner, though. I've had lots of problems with the plastic fins bending. I like the baffle which eliminates the need for wadding/barf/chute protectors.
PML - basically a waterproof rocket, which is good if you launch in a field with a lot of puddles and watering holes. Pistons are nice because they eliminate the need for wadding/barf/chute protectors. Some people have trouble with the PML pistons, but I find that if you simply follow the directions and sand the piston to slide freely at the lowest temperature at which you launch, it works reliably. I have had some problems with the fiberglass fins getting a permanent bend in them after a hard landing.
LOC - nice kits, a little bit sturdier tubes and fins than Aerotech (but also a little heavier).
-- David

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David Erbas-White wrote:

PML "X-Caliber" - good for about 800ft. on a G80 or G125, about 1400 ft. on an H128.
-dave w
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David Erbas-White wrote:

your
This very topic has been discussed in great detail by the members of our club, the Austin Area Rocketry Group. I summed up the findings in a post to RMR some years ago:
The AARG Quick 'n Easy 10 Step Cert Process!
1) Order an Aerotech "Sumo" kit and H128W motor. Ask about alternate sources for the motor when told by vendor that it is "temporarily unavailable." Ignite week-long flame war covering topics as diverse as "who's fault the fire really was," American-Canadian foreign relations, and scheduling for DC district federal court judges.
2) Open the kit box. Remove engine hook and directions. Throw directions away. Save engine hook for later epoxy mixing.
3) Endlessly debate the merits of CA vs. epoxy adhesives, preferably with folks who have never used one or the other. Purchase selected adhesive from obscure boating store when discussion thread dies out.
4) Open container(s) of CA or epoxy. Throw entire bottle(s) into "Sumo" box. Close box.
5) Shake "Sumo" box aggressively in order to spread glue around. Continue shaking until parts quit rattling, or box becomes too hot to hold due to glue curing.
6) Choose a color of spray paint that you wish to finish your rocket with. Throw can into "Sumo" box.
7) Place "Sumo" box in your backyard. Shoot repeatedly with shotgun until spray paint can inside explodes. (Remember that several light, even shots are preferable to one intense barrage of gunfire!)
8) Remove finished rocket from box. Remove buckshot from surface of rocket before paint dries.
9) Steal appropriate motor. Fly rocket. Get certification.
10) Tell endless stories at future launches that begin with "when I got MY certification..."
(Optional bonus step) 11) Repeat for Level 2 & 3
Hope this helps, or at least provides a chuckle, James
_______________________ James Duffy snipped-for-privacy@mac.com www.rocket.aero
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snipped-for-privacy@mac.com wrote:

THIS should be the beginning of a humor FAQ.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Hi David: I used an Art Applewhite flying saucer for cert 1. His "cert 1" URL is at http://www.artapplewhite.com/level1.html and he offers a $20 rebate if you cert with one of his kits.
I then built a BSD Horizon 4" http://www.bsdrocketry.com/4%20Horizon.htm with dual deployment to gain experience in a more traditional high power rocket. I've since used that kit for cert 2 and for playing with the Rouse-Tech CO2 ejection system.
This progression worked well for me. I wanted something simple for my first high power motor. I didn't have much experience with reloadable motors and wanted to be able to concentrate on this and not worry about recovery. The Horizon was a nice progression into a more complex system. It can be built for motor recovery and that might make an intermediate step between the tumble recovery saucer and the Dual-deploy with Defy Gravity Tether system I put together for the Horizon. My local prefect(s) were quite supportive of this progression. (I wasn't accused of "cheating" by using the saucer for cert 1. 8)     Best wishes,     Will
David Erbas-White wrote:

--
Will Marchant, NAR 13356, Tripoli 10125 L2
snipped-for-privacy@amsat.org http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will /
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says...

Well well, finally someone asks so I can post the list once again. Most of these people have moved on from RMR, but here it is:
Folks, please keep in mind this is supposed to be the list of recommended rocket/motor combinations for L1 certification...not the list of who certed with what. If you would not recommend what you used for certification to a newbie please don't submit it for the list as they might not know, for example, that a single deployment VB Extreme 38 on an I284 is not really a good cert choice.
Nikita Piankov - PML Small Endeavor Bill Davenport - PML Pterodactyl Jr Steve Malin - PML Tethys Ted Mahler - LOC IV with fin mods James Marino - PML Small Endeavor Dwight Brown - LOC EZI-65 Andrew Waddell - PML AMRAAM-4 on H123 Rick Dickinson - RalphCo 4" diameter crayon bank conversion on an H128 Lewis Garrow - Amraam 4 with an I211....yeeehaaa! Neil Tarasoff - Public Enemy Honest John with an I-357T Med Delay.......Wahoo!!! Bruce Kirchner - PML Pteradactyl Jr on an H242 ( Public Enemy 4" Bullpup on an I357 medium also rates a Wahoo! ) Darren Longhorn - PML Arial Dan Ledenican - PML Arial Jeffery Potter, Sr. - PML Small Endeavor Michael Naunton - PML Sudden Rush on an I211 Les Kurz - Binder Excel Plus on H128-S Kurt Kesler - Binder Excel Plus with 38mm motor mount, H123 motor. Charlotte Potter - PML Bull Puppy on a H238 Jeff Potter - PML Little Lunar Express Dave Lyle - Rocket R&D 2.6" Sandhawk on an H128-M Mike DIckinson - 4 inch crayon bank conversion Peter Khor - Minie-Magg on a H128/H180/H238/H123/H242 (all short delay) Ted Cochran--LOC IV, all yellow glue, no fin mods, zipperless construction, H128 for NAR, H180 for TRA Bill Nelson - Loc Lil' Nuke on an H238 Bill Horner - LOC Forte on H128-M Paul Smith - NCR Archer on an H128-M Curtis Scholl - PML Callisto on an H97 Mark Simpson - LOC IV on an H97 Gene Costanza - ARG EV-3 on an H128-S Connery Carroll - Modified Aerotech Strongarm Ted Cochran, LOC-IV built with zipperless mod and no epoxy; H-128W-S Chip Jenkins - Public Enemy 4" Bullpup on H238 Mark Daughtry SR. - Loc Minie Magg w/mods on H220 Ron Johnson - PML Quasar John Stein - EZI-65 (minor mods) on H128-6 Jeromy ? - PML Callisto on H112J Mike Toelle - Slightly modified Aerotech Mirage on a H238-10 BJamesSr. - Binder Excel Plus cloned from LOC parts, with H123 reload John O'Donnell - LOC Caliber ISP, stock, H70 or 90 (can't remember which - aluminum casing, single use) Mike Pearson - Binder Design Thug on an H128 John Marvin - Slightly modified Aerotech Mirage on an H180-M Mark B. Bundick - Phantom 4000 HD with a forgotten Vulcan Systems H motor Woody Miller - PML Phobus or X-Caliber, or Rocketman Litl' Kahuna on a H123-M Todd Mullen - LOC Minie Magg H242 Norman Heyen - LOC EZI-65 on H242 Chuck Walden - 3x upscale Centuri Groove Tube on an H238 Norm Dziedzic - PML Small Endeavour H128W-M Bob Kaplow - LOC IV on a Ravenna H89 Mike Bear - Scratch Built 4" Upscale Mosquito on AT H128-S Dave Barber - Yank Enterprises 3" IRIS on an H-123 Mark Recktenwald - H97J-S in CR4, scratch-built 4"x46" rocket with side-looking, auto-winding 35mm camera in payload bay. Jeff Martin - Rocket R & D 2.6" Army Hawk on an H128W-M Duane Cole - LOC Minie Magg with H124J-6 Mark Havener - Binder Design Sentinel w/ 54 mm mount on I-161 Sean Guilday - PML 1/4 Patriot on H242 Steve Shannon - PML Explorer on H242 Bill Muth - PML Endeavor H123 Shaun Longhorn - PML Bullpuppy on Aerotech H128W David Weinshenker - PML X-Calibur on Aerotech H128W David Wallis - LOC IV on Aerotech H128W Steve Piette - Modified NCR Phantom 4K on a H128-S Jane Piette - Modified LOC EZI-65 on a H123-S Chuck Pierce - BSD Horizon H128-M Michael Roy Hollihan - LOC Graduator w/ fin tab reinforcement on H97 Ron Hatteberg - BSD Thor I211-M Rick Polzello - PML 1/4 Patriot on an H128-S Lance Lickteig - PML Callisto (Stock) on an H128 Dan Gebhardt - BSD Horizon on H123-M Rob Bazinet - PML Bullpuppy on an H124FJ Jeff Jones - Rocketman Wahoo on an I211W Ned Nassif - Thoy Falcon on a Rocketflite H330ss Rick James - LOC IV with 3rd CR, eye bolt for recovery attachment, TK Bob Ellis - NCR Interceptor G on an H128-S Dan Gebhardt - BSD Horizon on H123 Peter Clay - scratchbuilt 2.24" CoStar on H128W-M John Davies - BSD Horizon on an H123S Thomas Parson - LOC Minnie Mag on an H123 S Mike Walsh - NCR Patriot (modified ) on H123-M Bryan Chuck - LOC IV with an H128 Donald Qualls - Binder Designs Thug (converted to plywood centering rings, 3 of them) with an H128-M Kris Piwowarski - RDS Quasar on I284W-M Mario Perdue - Small Endeavor on H128 Ted Phipps - upscaled Centuri Groove Tube, all yellow glue construction, anti-zipper, H124-M Murray Lampert - PML Intruder + Pro38 260H110 motor Joel Corwith - Binder Design's Excel + on H73-6
--
Tweak

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Great list!
I recommend the Art Applewhite 10" 38mm Delta Flying Saucer (http://www.artapplewhite.com/delta.html#10_inch_38mm_Delta_Flying_Saucers ) with an Ellis Mountain single-use H48-P (http://www.geocities.com/ellismountain/su.html ).     Will
Tweak wrote:

--
Will Marchant, NAR 13356, Tripoli 10125 L2
snipped-for-privacy@amsat.org http://www.spaceflightsoftware.com/will /
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net says...

Dunno about great, as it is what it is, but it is certainly becoming an oldie.
--
Tweak

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wickball - LOC Caliber with H128

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Barry's Mini Magg is a good L1 bird
J
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I disagree. I'm not a big fan of short stubby rockets in general, and especially not for certification flights.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
People who exercise their embryonic freedom day after day, little by little, expand that freedom. People who do not will find that it withers until they are literally "being lived." They are acting out scripts written by parents, associates, and society. --Stephen R. Covey
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Barry's Mini Magg is a good L1 bird
J
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David Erbas-White wrote:
I appreciate all the answers folks have given, (and keep 'em comin').
Now that I've (sort of) decided to do this, I have some additional questions.
How are most folks solving the storage requirements of a LEUP? I started looking at what's necessary to get a LEUP, and it looks like my options are:
1) Become rich enough to buy a huge plot of land on which I can build a magazine, or 2) Only buy what I use at a launch
Is this correct, or am I misreading it?
If so, I have to admit that it is a BIG disincentive to getting into high power (as though everyone didn't know it already).
David Erbas-White
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Most do your number #2
however, for most, easy access 29 and 38 motors can be purchased still without a leup.
many mailorder shops will also sell easy access without leup.
most still do not need it unless they wish to take home a K motor.
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AlMax wrote:

Names? I'm starting to look...
David Erbas-White
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Easy accces is STILL easy access at least for now until the mongers kill that off with FUD ;-)
you can mail order 29 and 38 easy access from
Try commonwealth displays
www.commonwealth.net
You can buy your K and L motors on site to avoid LEUP problems.
this has worked for most users since 1994
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