Hobby Lobby sale | no posters?

Hobby Lobby has half off rocket kits and starter sets again this week.
Just stopped in one yesterday to put up a poster for our rocket club, and they told me that corporate doesn't let them put up such things. Any one else run into this. Another poster placer said the same for Michaels. Yet places like WalMart are full of such things. I put them up in grocery stores, libraries, and the local park district. Only HL said NO.
Wouldn't this be to their advantage? I'll email them and see what they say.

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WRONG!
There are 3 HL in Birmingham and they all let NAR 665 put out flyers right in the middle of the rocket section. We probably need to make a check to see that our flyers are still stocked. There are usually 15-20 in the store. e have them all over the place. It makes sense for the store to let any club do that. It means more sales for them.
I do think it comes down to the local store manager on such things. Ask to see the head man not the flunky stocking shelves.
Randy www.vernarockets.com

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I talked to the manager, who happened to be by the cashier as I was checking out.

Bob Kaplow wrote:
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well then be sure to tell him he won't be selling many rockets!

It's a trade off between "selling more rockets to people who will launch them wherever" and "selling less rockets to people who will launch them at legal and safe launch sites".
Example: Someone bought a rocket and launched it on his street in Monrovia CA. It landed on a power line. He climbed the pole to get the rocket back for his child who was watching below. He touched the power line, was electrocuted AND set on fire. His child got to watch him dangle from the pole while on fire and dead/dying. The local fire department went into the local Wal-Mart and either removed all the rockets or told them to get rid of them. They were a new store and we had not stickered them yet. We provided the fired dept with launch site info (or giant launch site is EXTREMELY close to this location) and we re-stickered a nearby Michaels. I understand that this Wal-Mart has model rockets again after a couple of years.
Other Wal-Marts have no model rockets because the fire marshal refuses to issue them the permit to sell them. Corona is one I can think of.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

On 31 Oct 2005 06:38:14 -0800, "shreadvector"
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Fascinating.
So, did the FD have Walmart pull all the kites too?
Fishing rods (easily capable of being used to cast a weight over live power lines)?
Rope (tie a brick to it and give it a heave)?
What stupidity.
tah

No.
Retailers are not required to get a fire dept permit to sell kites or fishing poles. They ARE required to get a permit to sell Model Rocket motors anywhere in California. In the past, stores which had no permit have been "raided" after a safety incident. the reults are either a fine ($1000) or a fine and confiscation of all model rocket motors.
Toys R Us in La Mirada had this happen in the early 1980s after a kid started a fire at a regional park.
A regular hobby shop got the $1000 fine for selling to an underage kid who then fired the motor in and around his bedroom. (Wal-Mart cash registers automatically ask for proof of age for these products in CA)

On 31 Oct 2005 06:54:51 -0800, "shreadvector"
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Oy.
Yeahbut..
The issue here is that the rocket motor didn't cause the death. The moron climbing the power pole to retrieve the rocket was the cause.
A hung up kite would've just as easily caused the same thing -- especially when large amounts of stupidity are involved. Ergo, pull all kites too...
God. I'm sounding like Chris Taylor.
BTW, where has (s)he been?
<g>
tah

NO.
The fire dept can only issue or revoke permits for things they are legally allowed to.
They have no jurisdaiction over kites.
If they feel that Model Rocket sales are being conducted illegally (underage sales) or that sales of these products cannot occur without severe fire danger to the jurisdiction, then they can issue fines or revoke permits or not issue permits in the first place. If there is no possible way to launch them safely or legally in the jurisdiction, they can choose to not allow their sale.
AGAIN: they have no jurisdiction over kites or fishing poles.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

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So I take it that in the PRK, every arrest for DUI results in a liquor store or restaurant or tavern losing its liquor license.
And every tobacco related death results in some store losing the license to sell cigarettes.

NO.
Liquor stores and manufacturers TELL you how to use their product legally and safely and discourage you from using it illegally and unsafely. NOTHING on the model rocket packaging tells you that you need a permit from the fire authority having jurisdiction to launch the model rocket in California.
Liquor companies have extensive campaigns telling consumers to "know when to say when" and "designate a driver", etc.
Tobacco products have death warnings printed on them and the comapnies have absurd ad campaigns touting their websites with info on how to prevnet teen smoking and how to quit. There are no Model Rocket company ad campaigns on how to launch legally and safely.
The NAR Model Rocket Safety Code is in teensy weensie print in the motor instructions and often abridged. and it does not address State regulations.
At least our club is doing something to prevent the outright banning of sales. Many jurisdictions will prohibit sales of ModRoc motors if there is no way to tell people where to launch legally and safely. I've been told this off the record by more than one fire marshal.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

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Isn't that a requirement of products carrying the CSFM symbol?

Your question does not make sense to me. How does carrying a seal that indicates the classification of a product into a specific category tell the consumer where to launch legally or that they need a permit to launch?

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I have been told by Tripoli members that if you do NOT get it in writing on official letterhead, it is as if it never happeved, to them.
The authorities of course do a vast amount of stuff verbally and "off the record".
Hence "substantial compliance" which you are not only practicing but promoting actively.
Thank you.

snipped-for-privacy@weinerboy.org says...
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Don't waste your time, Tod. It is the Republik of Kalifornia, after all, and folks like this are how it got the way it is. Can't have people buying those dangerous missiles...somebody might mis-use one.
It's for the children.
More regulation is a good thing.

Virtually every mass merchandiser in the Los Angeles area says that their corporate or regional offices refuse to allow anything other than "product" on the shelves. They refuse to allow club newsletters (launch calendars) on the shelf or hook. HOWEVER, one store manager suggested that we create a small sticker to apply to each product to inform the customers of the club phone number and website to get legal launch site info.
We then ask each store for permission to put stickers on the rocket kits, starter sets and motor packs to let the customers know where they can laucnh their model rockets legally and not get a ticket or arrested. 99% are thrilled to have us do so. Oddly, only one Michaels manager refused to have the sitckers and told us to leave flyers instead. They no longer work there, so we are back to stickers at that store.
Copies of our sticker file are available if you want it to edit for your own club. Just let me know.
We sticker Zany Brainy, Toys R Us, Wal-Mart, Michaels, Fry's Electronics and Hobby People (and other hobby shops). We also put newsletters on the peg at Hobby People and other hobby shops because they are real hobby shops. In the distant past, when they carried model rockets, we also stickered K-Mart.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZshreadvector