Sad example of nanny govt damaging our hobby

I scored a Quest 10 rocket pack with the mini rockets at the last Hobby Lobby sale and was displaying it to a 30ish buddy at his home Friday. He did the usual, "Rockets were great when I was younger, it's amazing how cool things are nowadays. Lets go to the park tomorrow, take the kids, and launch these". Unfortunately, after educating him on the long laundry list of why we couldn't shoot them at his large back yard (city code) the park (city code), the local schools (insurance and liability which I think he still doesn't believe me over) he got this sad look on his face and said gee, it's s shame we can't expose our kids to the great things of our childhood due to the overwhelming stupidity of a few people and a bunch of lawyers (which was funny from him since he works in a law firm).

His kids have a full schedule. They are good kids but they already have that burb stress load. School, Girls scouts, softball, etc. And I got the "girls aren't interested in these things so forget donating them to the scout troop" soccer mom speech. They are the kind that schedule play dates so their kids can coordinate schedules with other burbites. But for that one moment we had a chance to expose multiple people safely to the hobby and it couldn't get done. What really got me was the hausfrau said that the things weren't safe. Her youngest still had this huge scab on her nose from a roller blading accident and the older one had a serious knee injury from softball last season, but rockets are dangerous.

Until NAR starts to spend real time and effort in defeating the entrenched antifun burbites, especially in the parks and schools, the hobby will limp along in the grey zone, with a pitiful membership base fighting with the gov over the upper end of the hobby.

Reply to
a0002604
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That's it, blame the NAR. What a crock! You blew a perfectly good opportunity to step up to the plate and educate the "hausfrau".

The NAR does "spend real time and effort in defeating the entrenched antifun burbites". But in this case, it was your turn, not theirs.

I appreciate your frustration with the ignorance of the hausfrau when she said rockets "weren't safe", but Bunny's not gonna come down there and straighten her out - you're gonna have to.

Doug

Reply to
Doug Sams

It's fairly simple. I take my children and friends over to a local school and launch. Is it safe? Of course it is! Legal? Nope. And if you get caught? The Fire Dept gives you a $25 fine. I've been launching for years, and never had a problem. The one time an officer saw us, he asked us for a permit. And when he learned that we didn't have one, he just asked us to pack up. I may have gotten off easy that one time, but at worst all I would have had is a $25 fine. And after all the times my kids have launched and enjoyed this hobby, I'd gladly pay my fine and go back the next weekend.

Reply to
Strudleman

In California (Statewide) it is a violation of State Fire Regulations. $1000 fine and/or one year in jail for EACH violation.

Launch twice and get a $2000 fine. Argue with officer and see judge for jail time.

Ever see reports about fires in California on the news?

The days of issuing polite warnings are mostly over in So. Cal.

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

Reply to
Fred Shecter

STATEWIDE????? Your politicians have never noticed the huge desert you guys have in the east, or something?

Laws like these, without context, are a ridiculous extension of government power for no good reason. Lighting a match, or lighting a match in a hydrogen factory, are two different acts, and should be treated separately.

-- Regards, Eric Fretheim

Fred Shecter wrote:

Reply to
Eric Fretheim

Now there's a lovely attitude.

I suppose people should just ship motors w/out DOT paperwork, since nobody's gonna stop them, either, huh?

You live in the wrong part of the country! Around here, the school grounds are accessible all day. Heck, people use the school tracks for exercise!

-Kevin

Reply to
Kevin Trojanowski

Thanks. ;) Seriously, a man's home is his castle. If you've got a yard big enough to _safely_ launch modrocs (and that means without them landing in a neighbor's yard), then I really doubt anyone would ever give you any grief about launching there. Even if they did, all that would happen is that you'd be told not to do it anymore.

Reply to
RayDunakin

That's more restrictive than anyplace I've ever heard of. Sounds like they need to vote on another proposition or recall someone.

Reply to
Phil Stein

With all due respect, via NFPA-1122 they do precisely the opposite.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

A $25 fine is less than what we have to pay to reserve the field for our launches.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Unfortunately, more and more bureaucrats and elected officials get INTO office for espousing restrictions like those mentioned above.

Like in Aurora, CO. (Now you've heard of two places.) Not only does the City prohibit launches in parks (except for school permits) by specific wording, the local FAA TRACON has a 500' AGL restriction on all unmanned aerial activity and has rescinded FAR 101 modroc exemptions in their airspace by asserting that ANY model rocket launch poses a hazard to aircraft in this area. City propositions and/or recalls are moot here while the FAA restrictions are in place. And the Parks Director has already told me that launches at irrigated/watered parks are absolutely out of the question . What watering the grass has to do with rocket launches is beyond me, but all the parks suitable for launching in my area are watered (grassed).

(I am speaking as someone who has worked for months to get a single, local, public, modroc-only launch site approved by the City in the Aurora area.)

For me, its "only" a 30 mile drive to the CRASH section launches. For the majority of kids and potential adult rocketeers in Aurora, the CRASH launches might as well be in another galaxy.

Reply to
Gary

What do you say to the empty headed Luddite zealot snotty? I reeled off safety stats, demonstrated the safety mechanisms, pointed out that her husband engaged in the hobby and had turned out ok. But what I couldn't do is point to anything that would show that it was a safe LEGAL hobby because it's against the law there and no amount of education is going to penetrate through since codes prohibit it in burbia! It's against the law so it must be dangerous is the only defense she needs to mount. And yes it is DAR's, NAR's and all the appeasers faults because instead of focusing on bringing Esteser/Questers into the fold, they are left in the grey semilegal zone and the endless arguments over higher levels of power are the main focus of NAR. That is why there are 5000 NAR members and hundreds of 1000's of rockets sold. Where are the VLP (very low power) outreach? Where is the support for say 1/4A or Quest mini parks? Good grief, a softball field is the right size for Quest minis. NAR should be promoting these mini rockets and having mini only clubs to suck in kids, and to show to the park meanies that properly controlled, rockets can mix with other activities, with less danger than a kicked soccer ball at a sideline spectator from a U17 boys soccer team. DAR has been basically banned to out of Dallas County but if you had mini clubs, NAR could have 5000 members in the DFW area ALONE.

If NAR,Quest, and Estes will all join together to promote VLP, then the hobby grows. But Estes doesn't WANT to bring their customers into the legal realm because they KNOW most of their rockets are launched in gray areas. Like the guy getting $25 fines, Estes knows that most of their products are launched in illegal fashion, just because enforcement is minimal . It would kill the hobby if most of the launchers suddenly had to actually obey the endless regulations that most people have no idea restricts the Estes rocket to.

The soccer mom Nazi is not to be educated with mere facts and truth, they are true believers of the worst sort, the Inquisition and Red Maoists in China are more open minded than these useless baby factories.

Reply to
a0002604

Who's going to stop him? Gee, it might be the nosy Parkers in the gated homeowners assoc that just LOVES to wander around and actually MEASURE the height of the grass in his yard (6 inches max), the inspection sticker on his car (security notifies Allen PD if out), the color of his window sheers (can be seen from the street you know), that's who.

Welcome to nanny state USA

Reply to
a0002604

What else would you expect from the People's Republik of Kalifornia?

Heck, most of the people of this state haven't even got enough sense to elect a decent Senator.

Reply to
RayDunakin

Ah, now we get down to it -- what we have here is another "screw high power, the NAR should be focused on 1/4A modrocs" rants.

The fact that most people get by just fine in spite of these regs is why there's no great need to pay much attention to them.

Then what makes you think NAR (or anyone else) can do anything about them?

Reply to
RayDunakin

Well then he's got no one to blame but himself. Anyone stupid enough to sign away their rights like that deserves what they get, IMHO.

Reply to
RayDunakin

You know, I've never understood this "low power dislikes high power and vice versa" thing. This last launch the smallest motor I used was an "A", the biggest, an "I". And the only reason I haven't launched my Micro Maxx stuff is the launcher/storage for the rocket and motors makes such a neat little package to show to people at demos and such. People tend to find it more amazing that they actually fly than the HP monsters. And when I mention they too now are a "terrorist weapon".............

Chuck

Reply to
Zathras of the Great Machine

I have a guess. $40,000 more?

steve

Reply to
default

And to think, I was just waiting to hear you say this again Fred ;-)

FINES ! Fire the LASER !

Reply to
AlMax

We have a really big huge , yuppie park that seemed like a few billion was spent on. right around the corner from me.

it costs $180 an "event/day" to use a small part of it. it's mostly a soccer park and some softball but they say model rockets G and under are fine to lauunch their, under the NFPA rules.

but, you need to pony the $180 just like the soccer moms do.

So we drive 40 mins to a farm hay field that is even better. you can hear a pin drop 1 mile away !

heck, I drive 25 mins to work each way , why should driving 60 mins to launch rockets be so bad for some ?

Reply to
AlMax

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