Stolen items on eBay

That seems to be the way things go now. Three years ago, I purchased some Canadian Railway Modeler magazines from a seller on eBay and by the time I realized that they were not going to arrive, even eBay would do nothing.....it was past the 60 days or whatever the limit was.

My next step was to use the internet to doucment the sellers fraudulent activity (I was one of many) and eventually lead to my sending a 2 inch thick file to Canada's Solicitor General (the head of the RCMP). I even had the seller nailed down to a model railway meeting/seminar 2 months in the future in case they wanted to send an officer around to speak to him....

All I had from the RCMP was a compliment on the 'thorough investigation and documentation'; but regrettably there was nothing that the police could do.....it was a civil dispute and I would have to pursue it myself at my leisure!

The guy is still out there ripping people off and will until someone 'takes the law into their own hands', at which time the police will almost certainly get involved - and then wonder why it happened.

Fact is.....the police don't want to be bothered.

Ian Mathers

immediately"

Fraud isn't civil, it's criminal.

Depends where you are. There was a crook selling "museum quality" O-scale models built from DJH kits, and the photographs were of professionally built display models taken from DJH's own web site. Part of the scam included bidding up the price.

It took an effort by a legitimate trader and a few others going after him, but I believe he is now a guest of the Queen.

He even had an ad in the Gauge O Guild Gazette, with a 20% off coupon, and ridiculous things like a museum quality Stanier Pacific for 850 pounds (less the 20% discount). I'm guessing that this was priced at the level the bidders had been dropping out. But it was obviously too good to be true, and in any case was published after he had been caught.

Bottom line: it was the public who got him, in a counter-sting.

But I think ebay should be more responsible. It's completely "caveat emptor" (buyer beware) and they wash their hands of it.

Not all sellers are rip-offartists, Try the buyers. One of the things that is happening in the brass marketplace is the "zero-cost-upgrade."

You the seller have a mint piece of brass which you put on Ebay. You get bids, and finally someone buys it. He may even bid it up over what its worth!

Buyer pays for and gets the model. Then he sends a message and tells you the model was misrepresented. Not the model in the photos, Condition was not mint, etc., etc. He then complains to Ebay, gives you bad feedback, you know the drill. He wants his money back.

So you, the seller, get fed up and give him his money back. You get your model back, but it isn't the same model! It the same make and type but its all beat up! You don't even get your original box!

Zero cost upgrade. Ebay is a mixed blessing.

I would insist on getting the model back before refunding the money. Anyone who sends the money first is asking for trouble.

I don't think that would solve the problem!

I agree with the eBay comments on this thread. Occasional frauds, and a very much growing trend toward misrepresenting the condition of items being sold.

I have found about 80% of used items I buy on eBay are quite good, but that other 20% is grossly misrepresented. Bad experiences include photo angles chosen to hide missing parts, freight cars with trucks misrepresented as Kadees, and a brass steam engine in "excellent operating condition" that needed a major mechanical overhaul.

Another problem is "shill" bids. It happens a lot. As long as you have access to more than one computer you can do it yourself.

All you need is a second login on the same computer and a second email box. But ebay is not really any different than live auctions or flea markets if someone wants to game the system. Stolen and counterfeit items and shill bids are all common practice. Ebay just makes if more efficient.

Ed

in article snipped-for-privacy@mb-m16.aol.com, MGuill1224 at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote on 7/10/04 1:17 PM:

Fraud certainly is criminal instead of civil, but in Canada at least, the police don't seem to be interested even when most of the work is done for them. I've just re-activated it - have a look at the letters.......

I should have checked first to see if Tim Horton's was doing "Roll-up-the-Rim" before I sent the file.........

Here in the US it might come under the heading of mail fraud, and the Postmaster General takes it pretty seriously or at least, used to.

Who knows in this age of budget cuts so that we can have the No Billionaire Left Behind tax cuts?

Of course, some non-billionaires with incomes above $300,000 do get a few crumbs of that pretzel, but there are plenty of folks who get nary a crumb and seem to think it a great benefit for mankind. Fools!!

Good morning Steve;

The post office restricted their investigation to 'who cashed the money order and where'. Aside from that, they referred me to the RCMP Commercial Crime Department. One of these days, I'll make a pilgrimage to Ontario and look this SOB up - may even get arrested trying to get satisfaction for the money spent.

Ian

Good to hear from you, Steve;

How is your model railway going? Always interested in what folks are doing with their hobby.

Marie is on vacation with Philippe and I've been on my own for almost 3 weeks now. I had time to assemble a couple of IM 'Canadian Petroleum Tank Lines' 10,000 gal cars. They look really nice. Now I have to find a reason for them to be on the railway......

With those and my Imperial Oil and Champion Oils tankers, I have more than the 'calculated' tank car traffic.

I guess that the ORER is only a guideline anyway. I have a special interest in Champion having grown up next to the L&PS railway. I saw those nearly every day.

Always looking for photos for the client gallery.......hint, hint.....;0) BTW, I have some new materials to add to the web site including a pink granite and deep red granite.......if you would like a sample, let me know.

Ian

As for stuff being "grossly misrepresented"....could it be that maybe some of the sellers have absolutely NO idea what they are selling? They found it in granny's attic, etc.

There are also a number of what appear to be salvagers who cruise estate and yard sales. These folks can probably be lumped with the found in the attic category.

I've generally stayed away from the model railroad offerings unless I'm looking for something specific, and have studied the available information. Emailing the seller to get specific answers helps avoid problems.

I've also encountered the occasional seller who probably wouldn't make it as a normal retailer because they appear to lack the people skills that would required to be successful in dealing directly with the public. Some of these folks can be a real PITA even in this environment. Their offerings are ok, but I'd not care to live next door.

So far, I've found the ratings to be a reliable indicator. But, when someone doesn't want PayPal or credit card payment, I'll use a postal money order. Threats of mail fraud charges generally resolve problems.

Carl Heinz

I had a similar situation - ordered about $40 worth of stuff, most of the $40 was shipping, a lot of little items that were a buck each, was about $10 in merchandise and $30 in shipping fees. Paid with paypal, waited.. no goods, after a week emailed, no reply, so I went to PayPal immediately. The seller had closed their paypal account and their ebay account had been suspended, they could not get my money back. Live and learn, you know. You can buy in a hobby shop and if its not a reputable one you can get taken. You can buy online and get taken. So far every railroad item I have ordered through eBay I have been very happy with the items and the sale in general. Knock on wood.

went to PayPal immediately. The seller had closed their paypal account and their ebay account had been suspended, they could not get my money back.< This is the trouble with Palpal and the reason I will never use it. With most/all real credit card accounts you can have the charge reversed or cancelled (if fraud) and your money returned.

Curious: what happens if you pay your PayPal with a credit card: can that be reversed out if the goods are not delivered? My take on using a credit card is if the goods you paid for with the card are never delivered, you have a disputable charge and its PayPal's problem. I've never had such a problem because I won't buy from someone without several prior sales and an ebay account which has been in effect for some time (like 6 months).

Ed

in article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Jon Miller at snipped-for-privacy@inow.com wrote on 7/12/04 3:54 PM:

Because of the possibility of getting ripped off by a stranger through eBay I refuse to use Paypal, credit cards, personal checks, etc. when I've won an auction. I now *only* use USPS money orders and mail them to the seller. This way the seller has to provide me with an address, hopefully one through which they may be traced. Also, it adds more fuel to the fire by not honoring a federal money order when a fraud claim is made with the postal inspectors.

I went back and re-read the PayPal backout charge policy. It basically says that if you paid with your bank account (like a cash equivalent), they will help you get reimbursed from any money left in the sellers PayPal account. But other that that, you are stuck.

If you paid via PayPal with a credit card, it is as if you paid the seller directly with the credit card (other than the fact the he doesn't actually get your number, which is a good thing for fraud protection). So if the item is not as represented, not delivered, etc., you contact the credit card company (not PayPal, and certainly not both PayPal and your credit card company) and dispute the charge just like if you had a problem with Macy's. I guess if the seller has credit card credits in his PayPal account and tries to close it, he doesn't get the cash right away because they might be disputed and backed out. But if PayPal is out money, and I get mine back, what do I care?

By the way, I've never had a problem with an eBay item which was not resolved to my satisfaction. The only real hassle involved a Playstation game which was not advertised correctly (Japanese version which required the "chip" to run); the seller whined and wanted a restocking fee. I just said, not as advertised (I printed the description as I always do); he changed the online description for the next auction heh heh heh. Anyway, I simply told him that I was disputing the charge with my Visa card and would not pay a restocking fee. He whined again, said he'd give me bad feedback (ooooooo), but he backed off, gave me no feedback (I have him a thumbs down with a description). It was really no more of a hassle than taking something back to a retailer who really doesn't want to cooperate.

Ed

in article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Rick Jones at snipped-for-privacy@extra.ev.net wrote on 7/12/04 5:51 PM: