FAA Notification on Large Model Rockets

What is your experience in calling an ATC Tower in your area to tell them you are launching a model rocket that weighs 20 ounces and has an ounce of
propellant? What do they say or ask?
--
Tom Koszuta
Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers
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I as an ATC ask where are you going to fly? When start/stop times. max altitude expected? and color of chutes used in case I get another UFO reprt from an airplane. and I ask them to please call back when all operations are completed. This helps all parties concerned to be aware of what is going on.

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Other than the chute colors, all that is specified in FAR 101.25.
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14 CFR Sec. 101.22 Special provisions for large model rockets.
Persons operating model rockets that use not more than 125 grams of propellant; that are made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; that contain no substantial metal parts, and that weigh not more than 1,500 grams, including the propellant, need not comply with Sec. 101.23 (b), (c), (g), and (h), provided: (a) That person complies with all provisions of Sec. 101.25; and (b) The operation is not conducted within 5 miles of an airport runway or other landing area unless the information required in Sec. 101.25 is also provided to the manager of that airport.
Sec. 101.25 Notice requirements.
No person may operate an unmanned rocket unless that person gives the following information to the FAA ATC facility nearest to the place of intended operation no less than 24 hours prior to and no more than 48 hours prior to beginning the operation: (a) The names and addresses of the operators; except when there are multiple participants at a single event, the name and address of the person so designated as the event launch coordinator, whose duties include coordination of the required launch data estimates and coordinating the launch event; (b) The estimated number of rockets to be operated; (c) The estimated size and the estimated weight of each rocket; and (d) The estimated highest altitude or flight level to which each rocket will be operated. (e) The location of the operation. (f) The date, time, and duration of the operation. (g) Any other pertinent information requested by the ATC facility.
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/14cfr101_04.html
Thomas Koszuta wrote:

--
David W. Schultz
http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
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I think this gives them the right to ask us to make a second call to the local FSS to have a NOTAM issued.
Again, the FSS folks usually have their act together more than other places.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
The problem with governments is that citizens need to keep them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beast is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only they hold their own leash.
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For that weight, you are in the FAR 101.25 Notification requirement section. You need to tell them IN ADVANCE that you are going to launch, and you must provide the information specified in 101.25. You can do so by phone or fax. My ATAC contact preferred fax. It took me a while to find anyone in ATAC that actually had a clue what I was talking about. They are not technically allowed to "deny" your flight if you truely fall into the 101.25 category - it is a notice, not a request for approval. There is no need to call them the day of the launch unless you actually need a waiver, and in fact you can't activate the 101.25 Notice on the day of the launch - that's too late. Calling for the NOTAM, being of operations, and end of operations are only required for a Waiver.
-- David

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On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:44:30 GMT, "Thomas Koszuta"

Time and location are key points. They like latitude & longitude. Location in reference to a VOR is good too.
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Actually, they prefer VOR radial and distance in NM to Lat/Long. I usually provide both. Similarly, they work in Zulu (GMT). I give them both local and Z times.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
The problem with governments is that citizens need to keep them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beast is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only they hold their own leash.
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To add to this while on the subject, where can one find out who the local ATC tower over their area is?
David

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paducah? http://directory.faa.gov/ws_MapList/FacList.asp?RegID=SO&Fac=ATCT&FSuff T&FacID=PAH
shockie B)

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forgot to say you must also notify the airport manager if you are within 5 miles of the airport....
http://www.barkleyregional.com/contacts.html
this means with 24 hr notice, you could fly 3.3 lb H models all day .......
shockie B)

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Unless it is somehow proven that your operation is unsafe. It is possible but I am unsure how that would be done.
--

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com




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This brings up a flaw in the regulation. The regulation says nothing about control towers, it says "the FAA ATC facility nearest to the place of intended operation". This may or may not be a control tower, and the nearest facility may have no responsibility for the airspace affected by the launch.
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My ATC has me call the control in the area I am flying when I do this Steve.

local
about
the
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That's logical, but may violate the letter of the law. The ATC facility responsible for the airspace concerned is frequently not the closest ATC facility.
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writes:

Call your local Flight Service Station (FSS) and ask who you should contact for your location. Usually you can reach the local FSS by calling 1-800-WX-BRIEF. They will have all the contact information for local ATCs as well as where to call to file a NOTAM.
You can actually see your NOTAM online once issued. Go to https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/geo/radiusForm.html and enter the airport designator for whatever is closest to you, for example ORD for O'Hare. Search for the word ROCKET.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
The problem with governments is that citizens need to keep them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beast is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only they hold their own leash.
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Thomas Koszuta wrote:

I was asked, and had on hand the following....
Latitude and longitude of the launch pin Start time, end time (pad an hours it in case you run into a problem, they'll call if you have to be cut short) The two closest airports, names, distances and direction....including Naval or Air Force facilities
......with all the answers a day early it was no problem. Called the next day to activate the FAR 101 and all was well. The FAA guys are usually very professional to deal with. Unlike some others we have to..........
Chck
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Have to be cut short?

Interesting. You'd think that once given the latitude and longitude of the launch site they'd know what the two closest airports were.
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As you can see, there is WIDE discrepency between what the actual regs require and what rmr folks try to impose on you, often through their political positions at NAR or TRA.
I suggest reading and complying with the regs. You might still be selectively enforced against, and or have false allegations made against you, but at least you will have an affirmative defense to be ignored before you are summarilly punished, often without hearing :)
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Poor, pathetic jerry.
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