FAA Notification on Large Model Rockets

What about being a party to the violation of regulations under DOT's control? I don't think Fred did anything to initiate the DOT's investigation but if he did, I appreciate it. I wouldn't want to unknowingly be party to your bs and have legal problems as a result of it. Fact is I'd rather have the feds up your ass than mine.

Making stuff up? Not quite. I have been doing this for a number of years now. When we call and notify our local FAA, they end up doing a NOTAM anyway. We never tell them to do so, it just happens cause that is what they want to do. We are in the suburbs of a large metropolitan city. So in some ways it makes sense to have a NOTAM to warn pilots of your 3.3lb rocket. In either case, if your operation is deemed unsafe you may be in a little hot water. Whether Jerry is right or wrong is of little interest to me.

Help me out here.

Deemed unsafe, how?

In hot water in what way?

I have attended Tripoli launches where they launch right into clouds despite the waivers stating not to, and launching high performance rockets as aircraft fly right overhead.

They seemed to have no such consequences and there were lots of witnesses.

I find it VERY hard to conceive of a LMR flight (under 125g propellant-240ns) and over a pound but under 3.3 pounds, having any effect on aircraft, even if you were so bold or inattentitive to fly where an aircraft can actually see your rocket.

Jerry

Couldn't possibly have happened until something was shipped there, wouldn't you agree?

There was no mutually agreed "there" to ship it to, so the issue was ALWAYS moot.

Actually we had A situation i the CHicago area where a group was told they might have to shut down flying under notfication on a moments notice. Under threat of black helicopters etc. Air Force One was coming through town...

Having been on the other end of such, it really FUs both air and ground traffic. I flew out to Providence wit the family. As we were on the rentalc car bus, close enough that we could have walked to where the cars were, swarms of cops halted traffic through every intersection around the airport for about 45 minutes, from the time VP Gore,s plane touched down, until his motorcade was well clear of the airport. We should get souch VIP treatment...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

We had a launch scheduled the Sunday after 911 outside Chicago. After confering with my FAA contact, we came to the understanding that 101.22 was not going to happen, but we still did not need permission for 101.1 model rockets. We flew.

We were a WHOLE lot better of than the General Aviation folks. Millions of $$$ of aircraft were held hostage at DuPage, Palwaukee, Schaumburg and other Chicago area airports for well over two MONTHS after 911. I was at DPA over a month later and it was like a ghost town. Some folks doing maintenance on aircraft, but not a single plane flying anywhere. AOPA folks were going ballistic.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Technically, you are correct. The folks we call at the ATC could transcribe the info, and issue the NOTAM so we don't have to make the second call. But they've asked that we do it directly, and I've always cooperated. Remember these are the same folks that can say NO when we ask for waivers...

The only problem with NOTAMS is they occasionally attract airborne gawkers, whose very presents prevents us from launching what they've come to see.

We did once have a couple AA pilots who saw the notam the day before, and came out to see what we were up to. Another interestng story resulted from that ...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Here's a template that I fax to them well before our first launch of the year, that lists the years launch dates. Phone numbers and such have been "sanitized", and you'll need to put in your location info, dates, and times. The main info they need is WHEN and WHERE. Feel free to plagerize:

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Actually, they prefer VOR radial and distance in NM to Lat/Long. I usually provide both. Similarly, they work in Zulu (GMT). I give them both local and Z times.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Call your local Flight Service Station (FSS) and ask who you should contact for your location. Usually you can reach the local FSS by calling

1-800-WX-BRIEF. They will have all the contact information for local ATCs as well as where to call to file a NOTAM.

You can actually see your NOTAM online once issued. Go to

and enter the airport designator for whatever is closest to you, for example ORD for O'Hare. Search for the word ROCKET.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

jerry, you are a liar.

Provide evidence and witnesses.

I agree with this. But operationally, the FAA screwed up when they finally got around to writing FAR 101.22. THey should have just changed 101.1 and increased the weight limit there from 453g to 1500g and not caused themselves all the hassle. Baring that, the point of contact should ahve been the FSS, to issue a NOTAM, rather than the ATC or airport manager (NOT an FAA employee, typically clueless to totally incorect about FAA regs). But the FAA wrote a bad reg in 1994 after almost a decade of stalling us, and it's better than what we had without it. They are the ones stuck living with the result of their bad rulemaking.

Maybe once we're clear of the BATFE, shipping, and other real concerns, we should work with the FAA and propose fixing 101.22 so that it works better and safer for US and THEM.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I think this gives them the right to ask us to make a second call to the local FSS to have a NOTAM issued.

Again, the FSS folks usually have their act together more than other places.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Jerry's usual drivel snipped.

Do you have anything new to say?

Wasn't the 'there' involved in the 40 Grand to the Man incident pretty close to where MDRA is? At that point, they were already on to you. Of course why would you care if you drag someone else dowb with you?

How could it make things more safe for another person? Operations in a manner that create a collision hazard with aircraft are already prohibited.

What, in your opinion, would constitute a reasonable request?

Yeah. You can see I jumped all over that and gave him detailed info.

Right. I don't think wasting my time with that person is worth my time.

Did you let Jerry in on this info? Duh.