Sad example of nanny govt damaging our hobby



Bob, I believe to be compliant, one of the FAR 101 requirements that must be adhered to is "to operate a model rocket in a way that does not pose danger to people, airplanes", etc. If the AHJ determines that using a rocket in this area cannot be done safely, then the fat lady has spoken.
steve
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default wrote:

So you're saying thathe local FAA office has absolute power, with no recourse from those affected, to make anything "officially Dangerous To Aviation" merely by saying so?
-dave w
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to
area
Interesting paraphrase, Dave. How 'bout a hypothetical question for you? A farmer and an FAA official are standing in a field watching a mod roc launch. The farmer says; "don't look like then little things is dangerous to me". And the FAA official says; "Well, I disagree pops. The sight of a rocket exhaust plume caused a pilot in training to crash here last week." Question: If you label the motors as model aircraft parts, does the DOT believe you?
steve
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default wrote:

I cant speak for Dave, but I suspect the answer to be: "Only if you are willing to pay the $40K exemption fee".
Fred W
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default wrote:

Is that a reference to an actual incident? Or are you just spreading FUD?
If the _sight_ of a rocket is going to "cause" someone to crash an airplane, it sounds like that person may not have the temperament to be a flight student.
-dave w
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says...

Careful. You are treading perilously close to common sense, and we all know that is specifically disallowed in federal agencies.
--
Tweak

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or rmr
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Oh Dave. The first rule of Trollism is to make sure you read what you are going to troll about. You are replying to this post:
"Interesting paraphrase, Dave. How 'bout a hypothetical question for you?"
So to answer your question, it is a hypothetical question, ie, not an actual incident. And I should have predicted your answer better, so I'll now answer in Dave speak.
You're right Dave, it's time we all stood up against the overbearing government and started to live the life! It's up to each of us to take a stand and disobey the _laws_ that the man has saddled us with. Just because an FAA official say's something is dangerous, and has the ability to turn us over to the man for doing it, doesn't mean it's wrong, regardless of the punishment. Right?
steve
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Impossible with the likes of you and Fred Wallace in our midst.
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Yes, we discussed this quite a bit when SCRA first started using the Santa Fe Dam Recreational Area as a launch site. Do a Google search since I don't have time to type it all again.
Bottom line:
Airport manager considered all ModRocs to be a "hazard to aircraft and persons" and called county park officials to have our park use permit revoked.
FAA officials called him and park officials to state that the FAA *DOES NOT* consider ModRocs dangerous and that NAR launches are extremely safe (with examples of launch procedure described in FAA literature - spotters, holding when aircraft in area, resuming when aircraft leave...).
We agreed to stay under 1 pound until resolved by higher-ups. Meetings were held. After several months of safe launches, we were 'allowed' to resume normal launching following FAA regs for notifying for LMRs.
No problems since then. It's been years.
Huge launch site in Los Angeles basin accommodating up to a single G motor (or equivalent cluster/staged).
Other folks could get launch sites at smaller locations (school yards, local city parks, private schools) if they would simply recognize the fact that they need permits, insurance and will have to follow the NAR MRSC limits for the field AND probably limit flights by altitude to prevent models from ballistically crashing outside the flying field onto busy streets or residential neighborhoods.
Having 20 launch sites with an A or B motor limit would accommodate thousands of scouts and school kids. (Actually, LA County Fire makes it easy for schools to get a permit for school program launches. They simply go through their office of the LA County Fire School Inspection Unit. And they have to prove they have a clue about power level and delay time...)
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
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We've got an airport manager (municipal, and no, not Fedaayn Daley) pulling the same crap again here in the Chicago area, and some very helpful FAA folks telling them they dont' have the authority to do so. And a third agency stuck in the middle.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag.
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writes:

But the model rocket exemption in 101.1 SPECIFICALLY removes the FAA as an AHJ.
#!%@ the fat lady.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag.
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writes:

But there's no FAA rep on-site making a go | nogo decision. This is being screwed up by a paper pusher back in some office desk.
And in the case I'm involved with, it's not even the FAA, but the municipla airport manager. The FAA folks actually understand the rules and are helping out.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
I support drug testing. I believe every public official should be given a shot of sodium pentathol and ask "Which laws have you broken this week?".
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municipla
helping
A. How are you involved? I believe I am in the hotseat on this one.
2. You are correct about the FAA folks :-) The airport manager and that whole deal is dispicipal. Or however you spell it!
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Since you asked, NTSA.
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote in message

aircraft.
Excellent point! Congrats!!!! However it must be proven that the operations are unsafe. At least that is what the Chicago TRACON told me. You cannot just "say" something is unsafe. It must be proven.
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Phil S. wrote: << That's more restrictive than anyplace I've ever heard of.>>
What else would you expect from the People's Republik of Kalifornia?
<< Sounds like they need to vote on another proposition or recall someone. >>
Heck, most of the people of this state haven't even got enough sense to elect a decent Senator.
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On 15 Nov 2004 18:56:59 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

Who's going to stop him? Gee, it might be the nosy Parkers in the gated homeowners assoc that just LOVES to wander around and actually MEASURE the height of the grass in his yard (6 inches max), the inspection sticker on his car (security notifies Allen PD if out), the color of his window sheers (can be seen from the street you know), that's who.
Welcome to nanny state USA
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some anon poster wrote: << Who's going to stop him? Gee, it might be the nosy Parkers in the gated homeowners assoc that just LOVES to wander around and actually MEASURE the height of the grass in his yard (6 inches max), the inspection sticker on his car (security notifies Allen PD if out), the color of his window sheers (can be seen from the street you know), that's who. >>
Well then he's got no one to blame but himself. Anyone stupid enough to sign away their rights like that deserves what they get, IMHO.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

It's fairly simple. I take my children and friends over to a local school and launch. Is it safe? Of course it is! Legal? Nope. And if you get caught? The Fire Dept gives you a $25 fine. I've been launching for years, and never had a problem. The one time an officer saw us, he asked us for a permit. And when he learned that we didn't have one, he just asked us to pack up. I may have gotten off easy that one time, but at worst all I would have had is a $25 fine. And after all the times my kids have launched and enjoyed this hobby, I'd gladly pay my fine and go back the next weekend.
--
-strudle

"I leave punk rock on for my cats so they'll get more hardcore while I'm
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