What's the current state of the hobby?

Hello everyone,
I'm a born-again rocketer, lapsed....
Flew small scale Estes as a kid; a friend and I got into high-power
after seeing the rocket episode of "Junkyard Wars" a handful of years ago.
Sort of fell out of the hobby after 9-11. My friend fell on bad times financially, and I moved out-of-state. Didn't seem as fun without him.
Anyway, this morning's, well yesterday morning's (now), launch of Discovery got me to thinking about rocketry again, and I re-subscribed to this newsgroup. Haven't had a chance to read through all the threads yet, but it seems many of the same people are still here. I see Jerry is still posting, as is Bob Kaplow, and Anthony Casaroni, and tai fu, and LOC precision is still in business, and, ah, my memory's not that good anymore....
So... what's the current state of the hobby? If I wanted to get back in, is it still as much fun? What are the current regulations? What has changed in the last five years?
Anyone have any info on the Phoenix AZ area?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Formerly "RocketDog" from Las Vegas, now just plain "Les" from Phoenix.
Later.... ;-)
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Everything is pretty much as it was, though Aerotech had a devastating fire which forced it to move from Las Vegas to Utah, but they've gotten pretty much back to normal. There are some new motor vendors as well. The NAR/TRA case against the BATFE is going well, but moving slowly, so no, no real changes in regulations yet.
NARAM is in Phoenix this year (in less than a month). http://www.naram.org . LDRS has just ended. There's a lot of activity on http://www.rocketryforum.com and http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/ .
Roy nar12605

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At the LDRS Banquet, an update of the legal procedures were given. Don't quote me, but as I remember it, the BATFE has to present all their specifics for putting APCP on the explosives list, proof of deflagration, etc, and everything else to the court on the 21st of this month. To summarize, it looks as though the BATFE is screwed and redemption for everyone is coming soon. Time will tell, but things are definitely coming to a head soon.
-Booms

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Booms wrote:

ORDERED that the defendant shall submit a status report to the Court and the plaintiffs by July 19, 2006, outlining the efforts it has taken to comply with the Circuits mandate. Accordingly, this status report shall identify the laboratory selected by the defendant to perform the testing called for by the Circuit, how long this entity estimates it will take to complete the required analysis, and what additional tasks, if any, the defendant will have to complete to comply with the Circuits mandate. It is further.
ORDERED that the status report shall also address the progress that has been made in completing the rulemaking that is already being conducted. It is further. ORDERED that a status hearing shall be held on July 26, 2006 at 9:00 a.m. in Courtroom 5 at the E. Barrett Prettyman United States Courthouse, 333 Constitution Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20001.
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David W. Schultz
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Thanks Dave, knew it was something like that :)
-Booms

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wrote:

Look here:
http://www.libertylaunchsystems.com/Gallery/LDRS2006 /
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http://www.sssrocketry.org/default.htm
http://www.rocketryforum.com /
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Not much. Unfortunately, some DAMFSOB has taken his place. Hopefully folks will quit crossposting and peace will finally be restored.

We're getting over the 9/11 stuff. The lawsuit's going well. The October Sky effect, which brought me back, has worn off some, but we're still getting lots of BARs and newbs.
Aerotech is up and running again. Several new motor vendors have sweetened the offering: RoadRunner has F&G SU motors. CTI goes all the way up to 150mm motors and has 54mm and 98mm motors, too. Loki now has 38mm certified reloadables. Contrail and Sky Ripper have joined the hybrid ranks. Apogee is selling MR APCP Medalist motors again. Ellis has lots of new SU motors. AMW has 38mm reloadables now.

You betcha! I'm having a blast. I got my L2 at LDRS last weekend and am as hyped now as ever. Got lots of ideas swimming around in my head right now. Can't wait for the next launch.

Talk to your local motor dealer. What they'll sell you varies from dealer to dealer, depending on how they interpret the rules. But "easy access" motors can be had without too much hassle.
And welcome back.
Doug
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Doug Sams wrote:

Will anyone own up to being a RoadRunner dealer? I'd like to try the motors but the RRR site's "Dealers" list is empty.
Glen
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Hi, Glen,
I think that page is set up more for dealer inquiries than for directing end customers to dealers. You might email RoadRunner and ask about dealers in your area.
HTH.
Doug
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Don't know about any specific dealers, but they were selling them at their own booth at LDRS and all of them that I heard announced flew great. Lots of people were flying them. I even brought back a LOC weasel with one in it that had drifted way out by my rocket, and was probably figured as lost. Winds on Saturday were really strong at 3000-6000 feet. Sudden Rush still drifted a good 3/4 mile with dual deploy.
-Booms

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Booms, you got to admit I still have the drift championship. Good thing my daughter has her eagle eyes.

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Doug Sams wrote:

Note that the motors Apogee is currently selling are _uncertified_.
While they were certified at one time, Apogee has let that lapse and has apparently made no efforts to correct the situation.
Look carefully at the combined motor list and pay particular attention to the explanatory material at the beginning.
http://nar.org/SandT/pdf/CombinedList.pdf
"The Con. Cert. column also notes which motors have certification expiring in the near future, meaning their certification for general use will be withdrawn on the indicated date (see the key). So-called consumer protection periods are built into the expiration dates listed here. This means that only old motors, manufactured at least three years before the designated expiration date, may be used. Newly manufactured motors of these types are not considered certified for use. After the indicated date passes, no motors of the indicated types may be used at all."
As NAR recently extended the "consumer protection period" from three to five years, I can only assume that this really means that only motors manufactured at least _five_ years before the expiration date are certified for use.
I sent an email to NAR S&T recently (with a copy to Apogee) asking about this. S&T responded that they are indeed uncertified while I have heard nothing from Apogee.
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http://nar.org/SandT/STchrono.html
http://nar.org/SandT/releases/r80.html
"Should production of one of these motors be (re)started, contest certification will be restored after a 60 day delay and it will not be decertified for general use. "
Still have questions?
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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ahhh yeah well didn't the NAR S&T get rid of the contest certfification?
SInce there isn't any Contest certfication anymore, and R80 states that the D10, E6 and F10 will lose safety certfication on 6/1/05; doesn't that mean that those AT motors are uncertfied or non-certfied and being sold..... in violation of NFPA ? Huh?
terry dean nar 16158
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP"


"Fred Shecter" < snipped-for-privacy@zorch.alum.zorch.mit.edu> wrote in message
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I notice in the combined listing that Apogee/AT d10/e6/f10 have safety certification till 12/31/2007...
terry dean nar 16158
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP"


"shockwaveriderz" < snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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shockwaveriderz wrote:

I must have missed that or perhaps they did it and didn't tell anybody. The best explanation is that this is a figment of your imagination.

You missed the extension of the consumer protection period from three to five years.

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david: your right it was a figment of my imagination: last nov I made a post to contestroc where I suggested that contest certfication be removed from model rocket motors used in NAR competition.
anyway so NAR S&T says the Apogee D10/E6/F10 are not certified but Apogee is selling them anyway? I don't understand why you have brought this to the attention of NAR S&T and now RMR. If you was really concerned about people buying and selling uncertified model rocket motors why didn't you step up as RSO at NSL 2006, and say NO WAY to the use of uncertfied Czech Delta motors to be used?
Isn't that being hypocritical?
terry dean nar 16158
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP"


"David Schultz" <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
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shockwaveriderz wrote:

I am not particularly concerned about people buying and selling uncertified rocket motors. It happens all of the time. What troubles me is this might result in a problem at a NAR launch. What if there is an incident with an Apogee E6 that results in a claim against the NAR insurance? Worse, how do you verify after the fact that the motor was produced before the time limit? The only thing even vaguely resembling a date code on my old E6 is on the ejection charge cap. If it were up to me, and it isn't, I would be tempted to ban _all_ Apogee composite motors at NAR sanctioned launches because of the difficulty of verifying the date of manufacture and therefore the certification status.
In any case I explained very carefully at that time that:
1) The NAR BOT had explicitly voted to allow the use of those motors. Such is not the case for the Apogee motors. 2) I considered the FAI practice launch to be an AMA function separate from NSL operating under AMA rules, AMA insurance, and subject to AMA enforcement. Now that NAR has taken over some, although it isn't clear to me exactly what, of the management of FAI competition, this gets murkier.
The pictures of the motors on the Apogee web page appear to show NAR symbols indicating that they are NAR certified. Misrepresenting motors as certified is a violation of the NFPA codes. Why don't you get wound up about that?
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP"


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