how about an anti ATF ad?

I think an important phrase to keep in mind while attempting to promote rocketry is "broad based support."

Regardless of your personal feelings about either Ruby Ridge or Waco, attempting to discredit the ATF or promote rocketry by associating your position with either of these unfortunate events will merely reinforce rocketry's "fringe" status in the minds of many people who previously didn't really care one way or the other.

I don't think we should have a blanket "f*ck the BATFE" approach, I think we should be trying to identify their specific arguments in favor of their position and pick them apart in a scientific case by case approach. I think many people are already doing this.

Speaking personally, I don't see any reason to relate David Koresh to amateur rocketry (however tenuous the connection may be).

This is a political problem not a scientific problem so that will fail.

What will work is to say "f*ck the ATF" IN PUBLIC in front of TV cameras while shooting rockets from downtown.

Geeks doing protests.

Nobody has ever seen that before.

Jerry

"Geeks" have been protesting since Archimedes' wife told him to go take a bath.

The fact that you think nobody has ever seen that before is a testament to the absolute ineffectiveness of your approach.

I agree that this is a political problem. It must be fought on a political basis. With the sorry exception of California (I live here), f*ck you won't work.

Oh yeah, that'll really make us popular with the public. Not exactly one of your more inspired ideas there, Jerry.

uhhh... excuse me, but there might be some younger ones reading this thread and I dont think the F-word is exactly approcriate here...

As is fairly normal former, the discussion is fixating on the misplaced use of profanity.

The point is if you take your scientific proof to ATF they will ignore it. ATF effectively has no boss that will listen (you have met congress).

So however you want to describe it the only solution is publicity. Even ATF realized that months ago and is on that path right this second.

Get a clue soon and realize that.

But a bunch of cub, boy, girl scouts (and brownies) launching rockets, then getting raided by the atf will certainly raise a few eyebrows. Or maybe an ATF agent arresting an Eagle Scout because he has an Space Exploration merit badge (watch out if he also has an Atomic Energy merit badge!)

How 'bout it Dave Schatzer? Why d> "Geeks" have been protesting since Archimedes' wife told him to go take a > bath.

Sorry, but I think Jerry and Shockie have a point. It's obvious that logic and reason mean nothing to the ATF. They're using sensationalism and the hysteria caused by 9-11 to run a fundraiser and expand their power and control over the American people. In my opinion they're little more than a gang of criminals and should be disbanded. Saying "F_ck the ATF" probably isn't the way to go, but using a little sensationalism of our own may be our only hope. And I see nothing wrong with showing the atrocities already committed by the ATF. I'd rather be associated with the unfortunate victims of Waco and Ruby Ridge than a bunch jackbooted nazi thugs.

"PROTECT YOUR AMERICAN FREEDOM. DISBAND THE BATFE."

Regards, Michael Newton

Here, here

Hmmm.... is anybody enough older than I am to remember what actually took out Joe McCarthy's "communist menace" crusade? We'd better find out what it was, and dig some up... the "war on terrorism" is turning into the New McCarthyism.

-dave w

Jerry Irvine wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.verizon.net:

You don't take it to the ATF, you take it to the courts.

len.

If you weren't there why do you assume the same tacticswould work on the BATF?

As I said before he, like others of his ilk, did himself in by running his shtick into the ground.

The similiarities between the BATF and McCarthy are few enough in reality but one thing remains constant: "They", fear-mongers, are their own worst enemy... given a chance.

The ATF isn't _that_ stupid. First off, currently they are officially opposed only to "high power" and reloadable motors, not modrocs. Secondly, when they finally do get around to shutting down model rocketry, they aren't going to be raiding scout troop launches. There's no need to do that, they'd simply crack down on manufacturing and distribution. Busting an "illicit explosives" dealer is much easier and more effective and looks good in the press.

What a GREAT way to be labelled at Terrorists... once and for all! ;-)

Eisenhower. I suppose you Could dig him up...

If it saves the life of just one child, it's worth it. ;-)

I think the Wayans Brothers could pull it off in a new movie......... :-) .......they ain't too big on 'the Man' ........

I think the Wayans Brothers could pull it off in a new movie......... [:-)] .......they ain't too big on 'the Man' ........

Did you see NBC nightly news last night where there was a raid at a high school of hundreds of students (armed police in paramilitary gear, students on floor face down IN SCHOOL HALLS) because of "suspected marijuana use" at the school?

No shit sherlock. I am willing to go so far as to say there was GUARANTEED marajuana use at that high school like every other high school in the USA.

LET THERE BE NO DOUBT.

We are in a police state now and there is no evidence at all of turning back EVER.