I know Estes is trying but...

You *did* wait a week for the paint to fully cure, right? Otherwise, the outgassing may ruin the decals.

How many units does Estes sell for any particular kit? Decal printing has become *very* expensive. Just look at the decal industry in scale modeling. An aftermarket decal sheet's retail may often exceed the retail for the kit. Many of the traditional "silk-screen" decal manufacturers are no more. Laser-printing, and ALPS printing seems to be the thing these days. They can print up decal sheets as they need to; whereas the old traditional silk-screen printer often has to print up a minimum of 1000 or more of any one particular sheet.

In scale modeling, especially in airliner modeling, we have *many* people printing and selling decals done by laser or ALPS printer. Is anyone in model rocketry doing such a thing? It is relatively inexpensive. The only requirement is someone willing to do the original artwork.

Estes tried really hard to "save waterslides" by doing decals in-house for many years. Not only is it more expensive, it is an art!

Ordering 20,000 printed vinyl stickers is a whole lot cheaper.

Perhaps the solution is to recommend the decal (sticker) be sliced along the length of the nose cone before application in 4-6 places ala El Lubbo.

Jerry

Please pardon the tech post.

If you place the "decals" in a saucer of water with a drop of washing up liquid prior to application, they will slide around to a limited extent, allowing more working time for accurate placement.

I have to beleive that they do over 1000 of any one kit. Heck,

You are right that silk screen decals have to be done in large volumes, typically 1000 sheets (11 X 17). What we do is combine several on one sheet and hope like the blazes that the kits sell at about the same rate LOL

We have done two different sets of decals, one for the U.S.S. Grissom along with several other models yet to be released. Our second run at decals included the Alien8 and the Night Whisper along with some generic decals that we sell loose.

So, it can be done and shouldn't be an issue with Estes. The cost adder to a kit for a sheet of decals measuring 5.5" X 8.5" shouldn't be more than about $2 or $2.50 in low quantities (1000) and even lower with higher quantites.

Tom Presia (sp?) the guy that makes the Mars Lander kits does them. He's in PA and I think he advertises in SPort Rocketry.

tango papa

- I waited 2 weeks after painting.

- The dishwasher liquid in water doesn't work as well with the stick on decals because it only helps in weakening the staying power of the decal adhesive.

- ALPS is all well and good but how does that answer my question re: Estes & Kits that COME WITH decals? Should Estes hire Tom to make their decals?

That's what I thought Jim. Thanks for the topical reply. At least you (being in the business) know the dollars & cents of the production side.

Well Estes, how is it that the new kid on the block can include waterslide decals but the KING can't?

AT:

I'm a happy Tango Papa customer. I ordered something complex & custom over the phone; they delivered very quickly, inexpensively, and the decals were just perfect.

Yep Tom is great! The custom decals he made for us to use for Bad Girl & Rocket Babe are fantastic and seamless. They look like they were air brushed onto the rockets.

Randy

I've always believed the reason for the self-adhesive vinyl was ease of use for kids; and that they didn't want to keep two methods running and unfortunately expanded to the more advanced kits. Am I wrong? Is there really a significant difference in cost between the two types?

huge

I would have bought that argument 20 years ago when they did silk screen decals in house. Now that all the kits come from China, someone "over there" should be able to make either or both dirt cheap.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Even that benefit will evaporate as soon as Chinese realize they need satellite dishes and cars and consumer goods, and the wages to pay for it.

Their low average lifespan not withstanding.

Jerry

jerry, you're an idiot.

Your statment MAY possibly be true, but unrelated to the statements you appeared to be responding to.

Which are you saying is idiotic - that as the Chinese westernize, they'll demand higher wages? Or that their average lifespan is lower than ours at this point?

Both. As far as he is concerned EVERYTHING I say is idiotic. It is critical to his agenda to dehumanize me.

Jerry