I've just discovered wet sanding

I've just discovered wet sanding and I love it. I've been refinishing a bright pink (got it that way) 3" PML D-Region Tomahawk to scale colors, and
cannot say enough things about what wet sanding does to make sanding paint less painful. A small piece of 400 will turn primer into a mirror. The same thing with dry sanding would have taken three or four sheets because of paper clogging.
I've only used it on the plastic Quantum Tubing with G10 fins and was careful to keep the motor mount tube from seeing too much water. Can you safely wet sand paper, phenolic, or balsa if you prime it well first? I'd love to start using this on ModRocs as well.
Stories?
--
Tom Koszuta
Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers
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No, No, No,
Don't turn your primer into a mirror. Not good for paint adhesion. I mean you can sand the primer to that appearance to fill any imperfections but for the very last primer coat, spray one last mist of primer over the surface. When dry it will have a gritty feel to it. Don't sand it again, just leave it the way it is. When you then start shooting color coats the paint will really adhere to the primer and has better adhesion. I used to use 2000 grit to polish the primer coat and the color would not adhere very well. If you really want to get a mirror finish, wet sand your color coat after it has thoroughly dried. Take the sheen out of it. Then shoot lacquer over it. Sometimes it takes one coat of lacquer, sometimes you need to wetsand a lacquer coat shoot a second layer of lacquer. Now if you use an expensive color coat, you might feel that the final coat looks good enough and forego the lacquer. Modeler's choice here.
I picked all these tips up here in RMR and some of the info in the literature the NAR sent me when I joined. A good treatise on wet sanding was in the NAR stuff.
Kurt
Thomas Koszuta wrote:

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I saw that article, and still cannot believe what that gentleman called a beautiful paint job for that AMRAAM. Anyway, that is why I started the wet sanding to begin with.
I ran 400 over the primer to get a silky feel then shot the white over it. Did not seem to adhere too bad, but I haven't really tested it against anything yet.
What kind of laquer? You mean a clear coat? Can you run into compatibility issues between the color and overcoat?
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Tom Koszuta
Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers
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Thomas Koszuta wrote:

I am absolutely no paint guru and just use spray cans. I use a rustoleum clear glossy lacquer that comes out of a can. I've used a cheap krylon color paint and shot it with the rustoleum lacquer with good results although I sometimes need to wetsand the 1st lacquer coat and shoot a second coat of lacquer over it. I let the color coat dry a minimum of three days before even considering wet sanding and sometimes longer. I'm sure other folks will post advice too on this subject.
Getting a perfect paint job takes alot of time and if someone has a better way to do it, I'd like to hear about it too! :-) I have a compressor and old touch up spray gun, unused, I'm afraid I am going to have to learn to use as my models are getting bigger. Achieved my L2 with an unpainted 4", 6' 9" tall model I would like to reward by painting it. Using spray cans will be a big chore.
Kurt
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Why bother? It'll look great after that first second of flight. After that if you feel the need, you can blame the visible flaws on a hard landing.
Phil
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Phil Stein wrote:

Good point Phil. A nice paint job is only to impress the RSO before the first flight! :-)
Kurt
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I've RSO'd a lot of rockets. The only ones worth note were built by kids and it was obvious they nuilt them. Once in a while I do see a color I like.
Phil
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Exactly what I used to do with my competition models. Then some automotive polish and they looked like plastic.

Laquer will NOT go over enamel. Only other laquer or epoxy.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Bob,
You're wrong. Rustoleum markets a "Specialty" paint, a spray lacquer that will go over any Rustoleum enamel and I have used it on Krylon. I've also used it over the fluorescent paints that have a flat finish. The number is 1906 clear, comes in a green can. When dry buffs up nice with car wax. You might find it at Wally World and I suspect any paint store that carries spray cans.
Now I will concede Rustoleum might be marketing it as a lacquer when in reality the chemistry might have nothing to do with a "real" lacquer. It still looks extremely good for something that comes out of a can.
If someone is looking for a nice clear coat that comes out of a can, they should give it a try.
Kurt
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Kurt wrote:

Kurt,
Have you tried this on the Rust-oleum metallic paints? Results?
-Tim
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dixontj93060 wrote:

Actually,
I have some of the metallic blue I was going to try but haven't had a chance yet. I don't see why it wouldn't work. If I shot the metallic and it looked really nice, I might not do the extra step of using the specialty lacquer. As I've said, I've used it over regular and premium Rustoleum spray paints. Take my advice, don't waste your money on the premium colors. You wetsand anyways before shooting the lacquer the cheaper paint looks fine after doing the clear. When I've done Krylon, it works but I found I needed to wetsand the first clear lacquer coat after allowing it to dry for at least 5 to 7 days and apply a second. In this case the first lacquer coat looked dull and crummy. I was feeling dejected. After a week, I wetsanded shot another clear and all was fine. With rustoleum paints, I sometimes get by with one coat of the clear lacquer. You should note that when I say "one coat" I mean the result I get after one spraying session. I'll shoot a layer and after 15-20 minutes might shoot another layer. A coat is what I have after a 3 to 7 day drying session and of course with color layers you can sometimes wetsand the orange peel or drips out of the layer for a smooth color layer ready for the clear coat. Mr. Kaplow may be right about a "real" lacquer not being compatible with enamel and the Rustoleum product might not be a "true" lacquer but just a very nice appearing clear coat.
Kurt
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if you want lacquer try automotive touch up paints... they are usually acrylic lacquer.
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TAI FU
"Kurt" < snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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I have it works well.
Phil
wrote:

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dixontj93060 wrote:

I've sprayed Rustoleum clear over Rustoleum metallics and it has worked well. Both a metallic green and a metallic gold.
Can't tell you specific paint numbers, as I don't know that I even have the cans anymore.
-Kevin
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just make sure its the lacquer version (the more expensive one). I dont like enamel at all... they are very picky about how they are to be sprayed.
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TAI FU
"Kevin Trojanowski" < snipped-for-privacy@excessbits.cox.net> wrote in message
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There's a lot of difference between wet sanding primer with 400grit and 2000 grit. Wet sanding with 400 grit will leave a nice surface for paint. Adhesion will be fine so long as the surface is clean prior to painting.
--
Joe Michel
NAR 82797 L2
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Absolutely. Been doing so since the 70s...
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Thomas Koszuta wrote:

Paper tubing becomes a mess when you get it wet; water will raise the grain on unsealed wood (plywood, balsa, whatever). Phenolic isn't hurt by water.
Wet sanding is a got-send, especially when sanding epoxy.
One note -- even when wet-sanding, sandpaper quality matters. Buy the cheap stuff, and you'll go through a LOT more sandpaper.
-Kevin
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Pinocchio and his girlfriend are in bed, doing what wooden puppets do, when she suddenly sighs. He asks her why, and she replies, "You're probably the best lover Ive ever had, but every time we make love you give me splinters."
This remark bothers Pinocchio a great deal, so the next day he seeks advice from Gepetto, who suggests a bit of sandpaper might "smooth out" Pinnochios relationship with his girlfriend.
Pinocchio graciously thanks his creator and goes on his way. A couple of weeks later, Gepetto runs into Pinocchio at the hardware store, where his little wooden friend is buying every package of sandpaper the store has in stock. "So, Pinocchio," Gepetto remarks, "things must be going pretty damn good with the girls, eh?" "Girls?" says Pinocchio, "Who needs girls?"
<vbg> Doug
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I would like to add if you are wet sanding on paper tubes be careful because you can swell paper and ruin the model this way, if you dont like wet sanding because of mess or surfaces that does not like water much (try refinishing and wet sanding a guitar.... the wood would swell and ruin if you got water into a screw hole) use a paper called "fre cut" by 3M. Its basically a coated paper that wont clog and it really makes a difference if dry sanding is needed. I think Home Depot carry them now, its under "Norton non clogging paper" or something, it says that but it really says 3M fre cut on the paper...
If you want mirror finish here is what I would do, prime the rocket, smooth out all spirals and whatever, however only go up to 320 on primer coat, you dont want a mirror smooth primer coat because that is bad for adhesion. If you used lacquer however it will burn in to the previous coat so it wouldnt matter anyways. What you do is spray your color, and give it about 2 coats to make sure you get it all (it sucks to miss a spot after all that clear coating!) then go ahead and spray about 10 coats of clear, do not sand the color coat. Just get a coat, not too wet so it doesn't run, let it sit for one hour then recoat. Get about 3 coats a day, and after your 10th coat let the rocket sit for at least 2 weeks, don't even touch it. Then after that take a 1000 grit wet and dry paper and wet sand it to level the finish, use a sanding block for this, and you can go lower if you want but you risk sand throughs. Get it until all the gloss is gone then take some 3M finsee it II and polish the model with a cotton cloth, it takes a bit of elbow grease to do this. To make it faster you can use a buffing wheel or electric drill with buffing wheel attached to it. Go no more than about 600 RPM or else you WILL burn through. You can also use polish such as those found on www.stewmac.com since they are a bit cheaper than Finsee it II, use Perfect it if you wish but it should be good for now, but perfect it will give better shine.
It is VERY time consuming to do this but you will get a rocket that looks so good (like your car!) that people will be staring at it for hours. Dont do this on rocket god sacrifices or competition models... and use lacquer for God's sake! They aren't that expensive and you will have so much less frustration with it compared to cheap enamels. The reason you dont sand color coat is you can sand through (which is bad) and since lacquer always melt the previous coat it is not neccssary since they will self level when you get enough coats on it.
--
TAI FU
"Thomas Koszuta" < snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net> wrote in message
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