OT: Anyone Know Where to get 30-40% H2O2 in Ontario, Canada?

You want a chemical supplier, not a consumer store.

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At an Ontario pharmacy, you might need to ask for it at the prescription drop-off counter. It's available without prescription, but it might not be available off the shelf. It should be available in 500 ml containers. I'm pretty sure that's the procedure in Saskatchewan, anyway.

Good luck, Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne. I talked with the pharmacists. They remember it used to be available here in Ontario, but it's not on their computers any more. I got one to talk with their supplier to see if he could get it. No luck there either.

I have since found that a tech grade is available from chemical supply houses, so I'll give it a try and see if it works.

Mike Monett

Thanks, Jerry,

Yes, a tech grade is available. I am looking for food grade, but I may have to settle for tech grade after all.

Mike Monett

Thanks, Mike,

This is for an experiment to dissolve silver. It works great with ordinary 3% H2O2, and produces about 60ppm silver ions in solution.

If the scaling is linear, 35% H2O2 should produce 700ppm.

Silver ions in solution make a very potent antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal substance. Conventional silver electrolysis reaches a limit around 50 to 60 ppm. Some applications would benefit from higher concentration. 700ppm is way too high, but it could easily be diluted down to the desired concentration.

The problem is the stabilizers. I understand different stabilizers are used depending on the grade and intended use. Many of them are probably toxic for human consumption, which is why I am looking for "food grade".

I don't know if this grade actually exists, or what stabilizers are used. Hopefully the experts in this nesgroup can give me better guidance than the numerous conflicting web sites.

Mike Monett

You could dilute even purer H2O2 to your desired properties.

Thanks, Jerry,

Do you know if it comes in "food grade"?

Some of the stabilizers used for other grades may be highly toxic if ingested. I don't know what "food grade" means and what stabilizers are used, but hopefully they might be less toxic.

Mike Monett

It comes about 40%. If you want purer it must be distilled by an expert.

Jerry

Aparently good as an anti vampiral too ;)

[...]

Yes, I haven't seen a single one since I started taking it many years ago. I also haven't seen many dancing elephants either:)

My problem is I have a hypersensitivity to mold toxins due to an overexposure while I was staying in Ottawa recently. The symptoms are severe, disabling, and permanent as far as I can find out from others who have experienced similar problems.

I have used ordinary 20uS cs (1uS = 1ppm) for many years, but it is not strong enough to have any effect on the toxins. I developed a new process to make 50uS cs, and it helps eliminate most of the symptoms. But it needs about 40 hours to make 500mL.

I experimented with 3% H2O2 and found it makes about 60uS cs. The equations involving H2O2 are tricky since oxygen takes an oxidation number of 1 or 2, but the equation may look like this:

2Ag + 2H2O2 --> 2Ag(+) + O2(g) + 2H2O

Compare this with the reaction on silver oxide and silver hydroxide. The reaction is very much faster and it bubbles and fizzes as it gives off oxygen. The equations may look like this:

Ag2O + H2O2 --> 2Ag(+) + O2 + H2O

2AgOH + H2O2 --> 2Ag(+) + O2 + 2H2O

The idea is to try 35% food grade to see if it gives a higher concentration, then dilute it to whatever is needed to deal with the mold toxins.

Mike Monett

Dissolving silver? Sounds more like H202 rockets to me.... As I recall, they use H2O2 and silver screens.

-Kevin

One (slight) trouble with taking silver on a regular basis is the tendency to turn the skin blue. Google for "argyria", and/or "Senator Smurf". Here's one interesting article:

- Rick "Caveat emptor" Dickinson

You can get ACS certified from Fischer Scientific.

Doc

[...]

Hi Rick,

Yes, that is the well-known Stan Jones, who ingested silver chloride due to adding salt during the electrolysis. The blue tint is partly helped by a reporter's use of an image editor and does not actually represent his true skin color.

Argyria is always mentioned when discussing colloidal silver. However, argyria only occurs with silver compounds, such as silver nitrate (Rosemary Jacobs), silver chloride(Stan Jones), silver acetate, mild silver protein, etc.

The silver ions in ionic silver are rapidly excreted and do not persist in the body. For example, please see Dr. Altman's study on "The Body's Ability to Eliminate Colloidal Silver", at

Also a quote from Jason's page on argyria:

"Fact: There has yet to be one single case of argyria attributed to the use of isolated colloidal silver, with a PPM Silver ranging between 5 - 20, regardless of the quantity and frequency ingested. Every reported case of argyria that we have found was eventually traced back to a silver salt, silver protein, or other poorly made, compound-rich product."

The body does not know how to handle compounds, which can build up and cause argyria.

Here's some more examples.

The first is not mentioned in current argyria lists. I really don't know what this guy took, but it must have been extremely concentrated. Perhaps it was silver nitrate, due to the similarity with Rosemary Jacobs.

The next one is also not mentioned in current lists.

Note they claim he took 450ppm colloidal silver. It is impossible to make ionic silver with a concentration above 60ppm, and most generators won't go past

20ppm. So he did not get his argyria from colloidal silver. He may have added salt during electrolysis like Stan Jones. This makes silver chloride, a compound of silver known to cause argyria.

I hope this helps.

Mike Monett

If you want stabilizer-free H2O2 in 30-50% concentration, try to find "semiconductor" grade, which is ultra-pure, since semiconductor processes can be very sensitive to trace contaminants.

I'm a little skeptical about your silver-in-solution plan... the silver ions will probably catalyze the H2O2 to decompose. (If you want dilute silver-bearing solutions, can you use an aqueous solution of silver nitrate, or will the nitrate ion cause problems?)

-dave w

"Senator

LOL! What's sad about this article is that the guy is a "part-time college instructor", yet he got suckered by both the Y2K hysteria and this snake-oil nonsense. Shouldn't college instructors be required to pass an intelligence test before being hired??

i

[...]

That is very good info - thanks!

I tried ordinary 3% and got a concentration of about 60uS (60ppm). I let the process run until the bubbles stopped, which took several days.

I believe the equation is

2Ag + 2H2O2 --> 2Ag(+) + O2(g) + 2H2O

I added pickling salt to a small amount of the resulting solution, and got a solid white dispersion of silver chloride. It was consistent with a silver ion concentration of 60ppm.

The equation is

Ag(+) + NaCl --> AgCl(ppt) + Na(+)

I then added 2mL of ammonia. The white dispersion disappeared, indicating the silver chloride dissolved in the ammonia. There are several possible equations, but they follow the form:

AgCl(s) + 2NH3 --> Ag(NH3)2(+)(aq) + Cl(-)

AgCl(s) + 2NH4OH --> Ag(NH3)2(+)(aq) + Cl(-) + 2H2O

The above tests are specific to the silver ion and indicate the presense and strength of the ion concentration.

So it is clear the H2O2 dissolved the silver into ions. They apparently did not cause the H2O2 to decompose, since the process ran for a very long time before the bubbles stopped.

Actually, they never really stopped. If you look at the silver under a stereo zoom microscope, you could still see small bubbles. But I gave up waiting for them to stop completely. So there was still some H2O2 left at the end of the run. This indicates the H2O2 has to be in actual contact with the silver for the reaction to occur.

Silver nitrate is not suitable for ingestion. It is much, much less effective than plain silver ions, and it may cause argyria. I discussed this in a related post.

Thank you for the excellent info on semiconductor grade. It has to be expensive, but it may be perfect for this application.

Good show, David.

Mike Monett

>

Just remember your post when the next asian flu pandemic hits.

Silver ions are antiviral. Probably the only thing that could save your life, since you won't have any immunity, there won't be any vaccines, and the products of medical science have little or no effect against viruses. They can't even cure the common cold!

But you will never get a cold or the flu while taking porperly prepared colloidal silver. Get at least 20uS ionic concentration. It works.

Mike Monett