Paper on Balsa Fins

Or maybe I'm just getting older. Just seems like a shortcut to me. It doesn't matter to me whether it takes a night or a year to make, as long as it comes out nice.

Out of context but:

May take a the rest of my lifetime to build, but I'm sure the local library would be proud to display it for me.

Opinion is: take your time and bring something nice to the range...anyone can stick an engine in a paper tube...make it nice and people will ooooooh & ahhhhhh, makes you feel good...makes your time worth while........

If done right, laminating a lightweight fin material like balsa wood can increase its mechanical strength without adding an excessive amount of weight that a strogner material like plywood (a laminated structure) might add. It can reduce fin breakage and flutter and it can give a smooth surface for finishing.

Personally, I would just keep going with your filling and sanding; you'll be doing it a LOT (and not just on fins) and it will pay off in the long run to develop techniques you like and get good (fast?) at.

Adding the paper layer *does* eliminate some of the filling and sanding... but that is really just an added bonus. The main benefit is the added strength added to the balsa. I like to apply the paper using water-thinned carpenters' glue; and letting the fin dry pressed between two pieces of glass. Add some waxed paper to this "sandwich" to keep it from sticking to the glass.

I've been thinking about this strengthing thing, probably so. But I've also been thinking about my FlisKits 'Drake', the angles are 'different' and I'm sure I read on Mike's site about strengthening with 'glass'.

hmmm....I'm not really concerned with altitude or any records with this rocket, I really wouldn't want to see any fins break off on the first launch either. I've given alot of thought to not only the nice filet job of epoxy that Mike shows on his webpage but also a nice filet of glass between fusalage and wing. Just thinking about blending the glass onto the balsa...dremel tool + alot of hand work there I'd imagine unless anyone has any ideas.

The heck with the weight....just use a bigger engine! :)

Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:43:27 GMT, Zman wrote:

I think that glassing is probably way overkill for anything less than F-powered; or anything that falls under "model rocketry". The paper strengthening for balsa, is more than enough. Glassing is also quite messy to work with...lol.

And with all those cool Flis Kits you ordered, how could you *not* get:

That one is just too cool to resist...lol.

All I can say is 'it's not for me'

lol

I like to think glassing is way overkill for anything less then min. dia. K motors.

I plan to fly a min dia K motor on a paper only rocket real soon.

I'm still gigglin'. Greg, I might not be a dyed in the wool rocket modeler, but I do like to build models. I got the ones I did because of the several reasons: simplicity, cluster/very different, the drake just because I thought it looked something like a Klingon ship (left brain shift) and the Night Whisper (shudder) just because I just darn well liked it :)

Strange enough, I'll get all of these rascals built...eventually , stock up on a lot of engines and then...when I get the urge...just go down to a meet and fly 'em all!

Just for the hell of it :)

and have a great time!

Yep, you're headed to HPR in no time. ;)

From your other post, you seem to be a craftsman, not just a "builder" like me, so this might be a how-not-to.

Breaking fins is a pet peeve of mine, I don't know why. Greg's method of wood/paper/thinned glue will make a balsa fin stronger and stiffer enough so that it is worth the effort, IMHO. I go overboard with my models and mount all fins that I can through the wall to the motor mount and I fiberglass or laminate them as well. Little balsa, mostly basswood, some ply.

If you glass you fins/rocket, you will have to deal with filling the weave of the cloth at some point to get a good finish, so you're trading wood grain for cloth weave and overlap.

An important part of strengthening paper/wood is penetration of the adhesive into the fibers of those materials. I sand or peel the glassine off coated tubes before glassing to allow the thin epoxy to soak in. I use thinned wood glues when laminating for the same reason.

Once I've hacked up the body tube with fin slots and over sanding, warped the fins by using too much glue, globbed up the epoxy fillets, put down a layer of fiberglass which looks like a scale relief of the Rocky Mountains, and glued the entire rocket to the workbench with thin CA overrun, I take out a small plastic trash can filled with thinned Fill'n'Finish and dip the entire rocket in to cover all the defects.

Okay, I don't really dip them, but I do use a lot of wood filler to make up for my poor construction skills. IF, I even put a finish on. Yeah, I'm one of those guys who ooooohhh and aaahhhhh the rockets that guys like you build.

I am an extreme new one to this hobby so dia. K just means big to me. What do you think about the epoxy fillets described on Mikes website? Even with Woodglue it's still a good technique I would imagine to limit the 'goo' onto or 'not onto' the tube and fins.

Ok, I just didn't want my fins to break off. "I" would think epoxy would be fine....but not having launched any, I don't know what happens to fins....strange things happen.

I've worked with alot of balsa kits such as the old Ambroid "One Of Five Thousand" train kits from scratch in the 60's / 70's. And I mean from scratch! Working on a No. 7 Mathieson Dry Ice Car right now. and one Western Union Material Car #6.

My old man used to teach me how to make 'em....and I didn't like it...I just wasn't into trains...but...the skills were taught. I guess he was just trying to keep me off the streetcorners...and he did.

Now I listen and learn again....but I like it this time.

I meant to ask...what's HPR ?

Almost soiled myself lol

Hmmm, I'm probably not a great builder...although I have built 1/2 dozen or so 'dory's", those double ended cod fishing boats, real ones, not models so I'm very familiar with compound angles....nothing's square on a boat.

So the same with rocket tubes....round.

I am pretty good with finishing work though, albeit with a paint brush or roller...now I've gotta get used to an airbrush...again...np...old man had one he used on the old RR kits with a can of air...used one then, I'm sure I can use one now.

Some things just stick in your head like your Regular Army Number...and you just never forget.

I endorse that.

Waferglass fins are a feature for MR (125g/453g) 24mm 160G640-16BK

Jerry

Good attitude.

One last msg. before I mosey off....

I am NOT one of those builders that makes models that you oooh & ahhh about. I would rather make a model that is structuraly sound than a fancy one.

True, I admire super-duper paint jobs, but I can only do my best.

I kinda shot my limit on kits this month, and believe me this batch'll keep me busy for awhile; but I wish I had also gotten something like the Rhino? That simple big tube design?

I want to airbrush a ladder truck on the side of a rocket. That's my BIG EFFORT !

Eric

Retired WFD 222

12/20/97

Claremont, CA

I've bought very few things off of Ebay but I do remember buying something from Claremont, CA

hmmmm but for the life of me I can't remember what....didn't have anything to do with rockets....

maybe something for my Dad....rest his soul...

Hi Power Rocketry. We're discussing "model rockets", USUALLY, D or lower total impulse.

HPR involves "H" motor class impulse levels and above, or certain thrust levels per motor, or ,,,,

Check out the TRA or NAR websites for precise definitions.

I think I'll try it. I've got several plates of tempered glass plenty big enough I use for flattening my waterstones...for chiseles....got plenty of waxed paper.

I'll try it. Thanks Greg.