wood glue ? for balsa models

In the 1960's my brother used a glue that I can't seem to find anymore.
It was a copperish colored glue that dried very hard on balsa models.
I am sure it was toxic as heck.
I recently got a large balsa kit that I want to put together but
I can't seem to figure out what modern glue would is best.
Any suggestions??
Al
snipped-for-privacy@cox-internet.com
Reply to
old hoodoo
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I think various superglues are what's hot now.
old hoodoo wrote:
anymore.
models.
Reply to
frank
A good chemical smell, like dope? Brownish, not copperish.. Ambroid maybe? Testors dried more clearly. Something similar, look for Sigment at the hobbyshop that deals with R/C aircraft. Is sandable, just not as soft as balsa.
define 'large' to me, its a kit with over a 6 foot wingspan.
Which kit you doing?
for fast, there is gap filling superglues (green Zap) but is doesn't sand.
for slow, the sigment above where you need to pin or clamp along with good yellow glue like Titebond.
Sands well, dries fairly fast, and it doesn't have a smell that bother anyone.
Also very cheap in the gallon size.
If you need waterproof, look to epoxy or resorcinol types, but are a pain to work with
** mike **
Reply to
mike
Testors make a Wood/Metal glue. Don't use a fast (thin) CA on balsa, all it will do will soak into it and you will probably end up gluing your fingers in the process. Great Planes also make a CA and various 2 part epoxy glues.
Reply to
Mr Plastic
The copperish colored glue was Ambroid cement (Ambroid was the trade name. Generically it was a form of model cement).
Most of the people I know building balsa models use both white glue and CA. Use the gap-filling CA, not the real runny stuff. The tradeoff is this. White glue is cheap and easy to use, but results in a heavier framework, which is bad for performance if you are intending to fly the model. CA is much more expensive, but you use less, making for a lightweight structure. And, it is quicker and allows faster building of structure. I use CA at key joints to speed things up, white at other joints because I am too cheap to use CA on whole kit.
Model airplane cement is still available at some hobby shops. Lepage's cement, found at hardware stores, is essentially the same as model airplane cement, but there is little reason to use it with CA and white glue available.
BTW. some of us use thinned white glue for covering adhesive instead of the old standby, clear dope.
Reply to
Don Stauffer in Minneapolis
anymore.
models.
For balsa models I used Ambroid. I used it on RC plans and had no problem.
Dan
Reply to
Dan
Elmers actually works just fine, but a woodworking glue like Titebond is more in vogue...same stuff, really.
Reply to
Rufus
"Rufus" wrote
The flying model builders I know use gap filling super glue. Beats the water based stuff to death.
KL
Reply to
Kurt Laughlin
white gums up sandpaper, yellow doesn't, and doesn't dry quite as fast or penetrate as well on hardwoods.
Until you get sensitive to it, then you start looking at the other glues again.
some folks can use CA for decades, while others, one day, find they can't be in the same room(even with good ventilation) where the stuff cures without eyes tearing up. Same thing with epoxies, one day, boom! Skin rash at the slightest contact.
CA does let you build faster, but if you are in it for the flying, and not building, skip the kit and go right for the 'ready to cover' or 'almost ready to fly' shake the box model
But if you like building, and not in a hurry, the yellow glues are great.
** mike **
Reply to
mike
I've also heard of using a hot glue gun - seen some kits built with it, very clean. And fast.
Reply to
Rufus
Not the reason I would not use white glue. White glue (Elmers) is not fuel proof (heck, it isn't even waterproof). Unless you are building gliders, you run the risk of everything coming apart in flight - makes for sloppy landings!
I always used Ambroid. CA was not around when I was building the things (yeah, I'm that old).
John W. Alger IPMS 10906 Charlotte Scale Modelers
Reply to
John Alger
Why anyone would go back to an old acetate base glue like Ambroid for balsa flying models is beyond me. As an old free-flight flying model builder, that's one area in which I don't long for the "good old days." At that, Ambroid was the worst of the lot. Testors was far superior to Ambroid. Anyhow, The cyanoacrylate cements such as Hot stuff are so far superior in every respect to the old glues that there is no issue. The one great advantage is the ability to get instant joints, which is a great help for things like delicate stringers and such. The major disadvantage is that you can occassionally glue your fingers together and that is painful to get apart -- which is why you should always have a bottle of debonder on hand. As for wood working glues such as Elmers, Tight Bond, and other of the ilk -- great for furniture. Sucks for models. I build ship models these days, and again, for most work I use the cyanoacrylates. Oh yes -- there is another terrific advantage of the very thin cyanoacrylate glues with balsa -- and advantage not provided by any other glues or cements you might use. Balsa is very porous. The cyanoacrylate glues just soak right in -- and when they do, the balsa is significantly hardened and strengthened. I've also used these glues as a kind of resin for very small "fiberglass" work on scale models. You use an ordinary fine weave cloth (300, 400 or better) and shape over a form, for say a sail or a boat cover. You then paint the cyanoacrylate glue on and when it hardens, you have the equivalent of fiberglass. Real fiberglass doesn't work well on small scale and the resin is just too messy to deal with.
Boris
Reply to
Boris Beizer
I have a Sig Cub that I built with Elmers as a teenager. It has been recovered several times, and is about 25+ years old. Still a flyer...never had a joint pop on me.
...though I do believe it was probably the last one I used Elmers on. I switched to Titebond after that. And I hate CA glues for use on wood of any type. Always wanted to build one with hot glue, but never got 'round to it.
Reply to
Rufus
Gliders are not the only flying models that do not use alcohol fuel. There is a whole world of RUBBER POWER! The whole flying model world is not RC yet.
Also, some of us build balsa models to get cheap large scale models with no intent of flying them anyway. Guillows models can be detailed to make very nice large-scale scale models. This is especially true for prototypes that were fabric covered. However, for metal skinned aircraft, balsa models can be covered with card stock or thin sheet styrene.
Reply to
Don Stauffer in Minneapolis
As a R/C model builder for years, there are different glues, (tools) for different jobs. It`s impossible to sand a CA joint. CA also needs the proper joint to work correctly. Many builders are sloppy and CA used for a joint that is not a proper (perfect) fit can fail. I have personally taken a liking to SIG Bond. It`s fuel proof, very strong, flexible, fills slightly and sands if needed, (of course if you build correctly you should never have to sand a glue joint). There is very little smell, however as with anything, use proper ventilation. Just because CA has shown no sensitivities to a person does not mean it`s not doing damage. rick markel
My Model Aircraft Home Page
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Reply to
Aileron37
don't use cya for stress joints ...it has terrible shear strength
a common sense answer......nothing glues wood better than wood glue! period. it links with the fibers (epoxy does not) use a small amount and use double glue joints.. it will set up nearly as quick as cya this way, and will be incredably strong.
Double glue joint: apply film of glue to both parts allow to dry for 10 min.apply annother layer of glue ..attach parts ...it will grab right away and be very strong.. thousands of model rocket fins have been attachced this way for 40 yrs.
Reply to
spiff
I use both west systems and system 3 brand epoxys,, but thats not the point unlike wood glues(adhesives) epoxy creates a "plastic " bond ,it is a synthetic adhesive so it does not chemicaly link with the wood fibers... too very different proceses thats one reason why epoxy is not used to make plywood.
Reply to
spiff
No glue "chemically links" with the wood fibers and unless you're using hide, gelatin or fish glue all glues are plastic. If you mean "penetrates into the first microlayer of fibers for a better *mechanical* bond" then very thin CA is the best, thin (either by nature or adding a solvent) slow set epoxies will be second, third is probably thinned waterbased glues (all the PVA's and animal glues), fourth would be a tossup of properly mixed resorcinol and unthinned PVA's & animal glues, etc, ad nauseum.
Reply to
Ron

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