[Planet News] NAR/TRA Joint Statement on BATFE Issues, dated October 9, 2006



Ban hammers. Ouch! And while we're banning things that can be dangerous when abused, it's time to get rid of DiHydrogen MonOxide.
www.dhmo.org
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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On 10 Oct 2006 13:21:57 -0500, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

Hammers, axes, even rocks should be banned.
And forget about DiHydrogen MonOxide - it's a lightweight when compared to unrefined Oxygen. After all... it's the Number-One cause of fires worldwide.
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writes:

You can walk into a hardware store anywhere and buy a nail gun, the nails, and the cartridges to fire them. I've had one for almost 2 decades now. The nail gun doesn't know if it's shooting into a 2x4, a concrete block, or someone's head.
And while I'm not very familiar with starter pistols, I think they use the same blank rounds as the nail guns. They are 22 shells without the bullet.

Well, with a bit of engineering to defeat the safeties built in, yes you could.

Which would make it a DOT issue to regulate, not a BATFE issue. The BATF is very clearly authorized to regulate only based on PRIMARY OR INTENDED USE. Not what else might be done with the product. Otherwise everything from flour to gasoline would require BATFE permits. And if the BATFE were to regulate any device that could deliver a dangerous payload, then they'd have to regulate Ryder trucks, panel vans, 767s, and UPS trucks.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Ahh, blanks.
Just ask E.G. Daily about here long dead boyfriend.
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"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

I went to the local Home Depot to research this. The nail gun cartridges they had (on open display of course) were 27 caliber. I think this is unique to nail guns.
Remember, it is the "device" that is exempt so these nail gun cartridges should be regulated. They can't be ammunition for small arms or Home Depot would need a FFL to sell the nail guns. :-)

Gasoline is specifically exempted at 27 CFR 555.141(a)(8)
"Gasoline, fertilizers, propellant actuated devices, or propellant actuated industrial tools manufactured, imported, or distributed for their intended purposes."
--
David W. Schultz
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The cartridges for nail guns (usually referred to as powder actuated tools)come in 22, 27 and less common 32 caliber. I have part of a box of green loads that I have used as blanks in a 22 rifle. Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 level II
David Schultz wrote:

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You have a gun? That makes you a MEAN and DANGEROUS person... shame on you for excersising your Second Ammendment Rights! Shame on you!
Lunar
Christopher Brian Deem wrote:

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David Schultz wrote:

I've found that White Lightning does wonders for my petunias. How about you guys??? <G>
David Erbas-White
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:56:02 -0700, David Erbas-White

Burnt shavings are good for killing the grass in the cracks in the sidewalk.
Phil
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David Erbas-White wrote:

Haven't tried the WL but I gotta tell you, Blue Thunder did wonders for my Blacked Eyed Susans :)
Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75
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That might not be a good idea. Do you want the DEA to regulate fertalizer grains bigger than 62.5 grams as "drug paraphenalia"? :-)
You've come up with a fantastic idea for a way to use the AT reload casings that are now worthless to me: plug the forward closure and use them to hold flowers. I'm not sure how I'm going to plug that big hole in the front of the Pro38 casing though...
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My thought was to convert them into either a telescope or a flashlight.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Fancy pencil holders!
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:42:49 -0500, Glen Overby

No, it is the EPA that will swing in to action. Perclorates are a serious contaminate of ground water.
Alan
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Hmmm, I think thye come in 2 different sizes. I'll have to double check mine. is caliber just hundredths of an inch? And do you measure the OD of the cartridge not counting the rim?
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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AZ Woody wrote:

Just exactly what do you think 'propellant' (as in, Propellant Actuated Device) is used for? An 'expulsion' system?
'Propellant' is used for 'propulsion'. I don't know how it could be any clearer...
David Erbas-White

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Is there, or is there not a bit of a difference between the charge that will drive a nail into a 2x4 and an M motor?
What is being propelled? and by what? In a nail gun, the charge is useless without a nail gun (approved by a number of gov agencies).
What about an airbag? What would you do with it, if it wasn't in a car?
Now, an M motor.. what could be done with that? Is there a specific device that it can be used in?
Too many people think "pad" only implies "propellant activated" but forget the "device" part!
David Erbas-White wrote:

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ATF is probably thinking the rocket can be used to propel explosive charge for bad purpose... you know even if it makes no sense they know they are doing their job to stop terrorists.
--
TAI FU



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writes:

I'm sure that is EXACTLY what's been going on for the past decade. The problem is that the BATFE isn't chartered to regulate DELIVERY SYSTEMS. It's chartered to regulate EXPLOSIVES, of which APCP is NOT. Delivery is in the hands of the DOT.
If they want to regulate devices that could be used to deliver explosives or other WMD, then they need to regulate Ryder trucks, vans, commercial aircraft, donkeys, etc, and NOT our models.
Remember, the only time person or property has been damaged by HPR is when the BATFE stupidly burned up their own van while trying to unsuccessfully show that our rockets could be used to shoot at targets.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Alleged burning. There is no proof this ever happened. Other than a friend of a friend of someone I talked to at a launch this weekend.
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