will this obsolete the ATf's claims?

Well, okay, that's a valid view. I didn't say I had a GOOD theory. ;)

And, BTW, my perceptions do not prevent me from considering the BATFE to be a primary enemy of rocketry and individual Rights; if they ARE being persuaded, they are as culpable as the persuaders.

Reply to
Gary
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One of my thoughts as well. Anything which can be spun as "proactive" is money in the anti-terror election bank.

Got to keep an eye on the elections and see who, if anyone, admits to having coerced, er, supported DOJ/BATFE in this particular issue.

Except, of course, for our two friendly Senators from back east. We already know how they feel about rockets.

Reply to
Gary

snipped

It's very simple. The Galactic Council doesn't want us crazy warmongering humans to escape from this planet. They have planted operatives in every government to thwart humanity's outward migration by whatever means necessary. Eventually this "keep the crazy humans on earth" attitude trickles down to ATF which then halfheartedly starts giving us hobbyists a hard time.

Posted without permission of the Galac..........

+McG+ ;-)

(Hey, this whole anti-rocketry thing ATF has going is so crazy it's as good an explanation as any!)

Reply to
Kenneth C. McGoffin

On the contrary. There's been an ongoing exchange of correspondance with NAR/TRA counsel that make it clear ATF isn't giving up attempts to regulate sport rocketry.

Again, on the contray, they can be quite incompetent.

Earlier this year, BATFE posted an announcement on their website and within the Federal Register rescinding a letter that went out to thousands of people, saying that they'd sent out the forms and requested folks complete and return them when they hadn't yet enacted the final rule that would require such forms.

My life has found me interacting with several Federal agencies: DOT, FAA, SEC, Federal Reserve Bank and BATFE. All but one of those agencies has shown on multiple occasions the ability to engage in give and take, and to comply with the law of the land in vetting, reviewing and implementing regulations. One has repeatedly shown a callous disregard for both the law and the citizens on whom it attempts to impose illegal regulation.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org

"A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets, but high above the quiet streets on the twelfth floor of the Acme Building, one man is still trying to find the answers to life's persistent questions. Guy Noir, Private Eye."

Reply to
Mark B. Bundick

Thanks for the reality check, Bunny.

I guess I really just don't want to hear this. I've been involved with, and lost, a fight against the ATF before. (Not anywhere near the level of your or the NAR's involvement here.)

My frustration stems from the lack of citizen recourse if it is, indeed, BATFE which is the primary problem. I know they don't respond to individual concerns or input, with the exceptions of blacked-out FOIA responses or silence. And, at the time, Treasury responded to my concerns by referring me back to the very ATF offices I was complaining about. Concerns expressed to elected officials about ATF behaviors resulted in replies which, universally, placed the ATF in the position of authority and rationalized their actions as proper. The ATF's modern claim to fame all involve recurring suspect actions (Waco, Ruby Ridge), limits on law abiding citizens and not criminals (2nd Amendment attacks, rocketry), and one of the most telling acronyms yet invented; JBGT. I actually wonder where BATFE gets people willing carry on these agency traditions.

Eliot Ness pursued actual criminals with a band of high integrity agents who could not be co-opted by the mob. "The Untouchables" means something else entirely when applied to the ATF of today.

Reply to
Gary

That theory is as believable as any, since that is ALSO happening.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Simply a guess but after watching the Berg video the other day and guessing the BATFE sees more of the horrific sides of life than the other Federal agencies, perhaps being witness to such is at the stem of this grumpier(?) culture?

Perhaps like soldiers coming out of the jungles back in the 60's?

Just a guess, Andy

Reply to
Andy Eng

That is no excuse. But what is clear is that if sport rocketry and/or sport rocketry motors must regulated, the BATFE is not the appropriate agency.

Alan

Reply to
Alan Jones

Gary wrote in news:affpc.13543$6f5.1131266@attbi_s54:

I wonder when they'll go fter medieval siege weapons.

Just for the heck of it, I did some quick calculations this weekend to see how much mass I'd need on a trebuchet to provide the equivalent impulse of J class motor.

A trebuchet converts gravitational potential energy into kinetic energy. The relationship is simple:

Ek = Ep

Ek = m*v*v/2

Ep = m*g*h

Do the algebric dance and we get

v = sqrt(2*g*h)

[a familiar result; this is the drag free impact velocity of an object falling from a height h]

By impulse momentum equivalence,

F*t = It = m*v

or

It = m * sqrt(2*g*h)

Let's consider a practical trebuchet, with a 2 meter drop height. Then

It = m * sqrt(2 * 9.8 * 2) = 6.26 * m

If we want the equivalent of a full J motor (1280 nt-sec), the drop mass is 1280/6.26 = 205 kg.

Hmm, a very practical trebuchet, if we can extract all the gravitational potential energy from the drop mass.

Use *two* hefty terrorists as the drop mass, and they've got the equivalent impulse of a K motor.

Who needs HPR motors to lob payloads against ground targets?

len.

Reply to
Leonard Fehskens

Isn't Trebuchet busy hosting Jeopardy?

(Don't forget to avoid posting your favorite r.m.r. nemesis' name in one of these exciting computer generated ravings:

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)

-Shread Vector NRA #1 Paramount Leader

Reply to
Fred Shecter

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