I have bought the Revell Breguet Atlantic, aiming to build it for a
friend who worked on the avionics. It seems to be well provided with
options, including pretty good cockpit and bomb-bay details and
different sensor fit for the German, Dutch and French alternatives (no
The packers have been over-enthusiastic, taping the bag up tight, which
has caused the sprues to take on a curve. This has affected the long
wing sections particularly, warping the lower halves in strange ways.
Hot water treatment may resolve this, I hope.
My problem is, Revell have given the colour scheme in terms of mixtures
of Revell enamels, the main topside grey being mixed from two differen
Revell greys with 1% of blue added! Can anyone tell me of a reference
for RAL, BS or Fed Stan numbers, or a manufacturers equivalent
(Xtracolor or Humbrol, for instance). Reference materiel for the
Atlantic seems to be thin on the ground. I'm sure I've seen it featured
in Scale Aircraft Modelling, but most of mine are packed away in the
loft right now...
"Alan Dicey" schreef in
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Coincidently I just got in possession of this kit too. No warped wing in my
kit but it is generally not that difficult to get straight wings from warped
parts. I'd suggest to create some kind of construction first, to temporarily
fix the wings in straight position inmediately after gluing the parts. Think
of a piece of glass and clothpegs for example. If necessary with additional
jigs. Works for me all the time so far. Hot water may do the trick as well.
As for the colours I can't help you much yet. Most of the time I mix the
colours myself since I don't trust colour systems. I didn't came to mixing
for the Atlantic yet though. After having a quick glance at my comprehensive
collection of Humbrol colours however I think # 27 mixed with white *may* be
a reasonable match. It depends on how precise you want to have it. I usually
spent a lot of time trying to mix the right colour with the aid of as many
colour photographs I can find. Success not guaranteed, but still a lot of
Remember that maratime aricraft spend a lot of their time exposed to
the elements, so a great deal of weathering occurrs. Unless you want a
factory-fresh example, feel free to disregard the exact colour
specification in favour of making it look "right"
Got mine too today. I also thought the wings were warped, but now I think
it's the dihedral you're looking at ? Wrt colours : something like extra
dark sea grey (lightened due to weathering) over white ?
Untaping the bag has let the sprues relax a bit, and the only bad
deformation is now at the end of one of the lower wing sections, which
has curled up. As the lower sections are quite thin and flat at their
outer ends, it may well straighten out on construction.
After looking at all the photos I can find, I'm going to agree with
Pierre François below, and go for Extra Dark Sea Grey (Humbrol 123,
Xtracolor X5). I could argue that the scheme was inherited from the
Fairey Gannets that preceded the Atlantic, but in truth it just looks
right. Once scale colour effects and weathering are taken into account,
exact matching is pretty much superfluous anyway. But it does give a
place to start from . . .
"Jeff C" schreef in bericht
I think you're right Jeff. As a side note would like to remark that these
modern aircraft with modern weather resistant lacquers are kept in quite
mint condition in peacetime. (always found the nifty shower installation
very intriguing, although I don't know how old it is) I also noticed that
they are repainted more often than I redecorate the house. But indeed the
paints on maritime aircraft seem to deteriorate very quickly. Especially the
darker sea grey variants seem to fade fast.
Good choice. I'm not familiar with Xtracolor but I'm very familiar with H123
since I almost buy the stuff per tray lately ;-) Don't forget to lighten it
by adding white as plain H123 is way too dark. I have done some quick mixing
and it appeared to me that to approach the French colour Gris Bleu Clair
Brillant, more than an equal amount of white should be added. I also found a
comparison table in one of my references that states; KN155, FS36270,
Xtracolor X3, X133, Humbrol H126, H165.
But I personally would prefer to rely on my own observation instead. In that
way you would address all system inconsistencies, others' human
interpretations, scale effect and other possible fuzzy aspects, in one go.
I have found the Scale Aircraft Modelling that features the Atlantic in
Aircraft in Detail. It is Vol 24 No12, February 2003, and hadn't gone
into the stacks yet. (still available as a back issue too!)
The informative article, by Glenn Sands, says nothing definite about the
colours used. It does say that all final assembly took place in the
Breguet facility at Toulouse, so it is quite possible that all the
aircraft (French, German, Dutch, Italian) were painted alike (and in a
french accent :) ) on initial delivery.
The colour diagrams by David Howley include a legend indicating that the
grey is Gris Bleu Clair. A positive reference at last!
My ancient Humbrol Authentic Colour chart lists this as HF.4. A pity,
then, that Humbrol Authenic colours are no more.
says that the nearest Humbrol equivalent is 126 US Medium Grey FS36270.
However, on his French colour sheet on the IPMS Stockholm site,
he gives the FS reference FS:25189 for Gris Bleu Clair, which is bluer.
EDSG X5 is far too dark; Dark Sea Grey X4, H123 is closer, but still too
dark; the discontinued Humbrol 124 Petrol Blue is very close, at least
on the Humbrol paint chip chart I have.
Also in the SAM is an article by Tony O'Toole describing a buildup of a
test shot of the Atlantic. He used a Model Art decal sheet, which gave
FS15237 as the shade of grey. Other useful details are that the
undercarriage is metallic silver and the bomb bay and wheel well
interiors are Chamois, which he approximated with RAF Light Stone,
Xtracolor X029, but which also seems to be available directly as
From all this I begin to think that FS35237, US Dark Blue/Grey (X126,
H145) seems a very likely match.
Of the cross-references you quoted, I matched names on colour charts to
FS36270 = X133 = H126, US Neutral Grey
X3 = H165 = RAF Medium Sea Grey
Putting all the Xtracolor tins side-by-side, the colour values of
X3(Medium Sea Grey),
X126(FS15237, Dark Blue/Grey) and
X133(FS16270 Neutral Grey)
seem nearly equal, with X126 just noticably bluer. I _think_ that Gris
Bleu Clair is bluer than Medium Sea Grey, and now intend to use it as
the basis for my Atlantic.
One thing is for sure, the estimation of shades of grey from magazine
copies or downloaded jpeg copies of colour photographs is highly
suspect, not least because colour corrections will have been made during
both the photographic printing and magazine printing stages. An
original colour transparency might give a better representation, but
even then it would be preferable to compare two colour samples on the
same photograph, for instance a Nimrod and an Atlantic next to each
other. I've never seen an Atlantic in the flesh, so have to rely on
Thats why I was looking for a primary reference in the form of an
official designation. The identification of Gris Bleu Clair meets that
requirement for me, and seems most likely to be the colour applied by a
Well, I seem to have answered my own question. I hope some of the
lurking mass of modellers out there find the above useful: but as you
say, there is nothing to beat first-hand observation (where possible),
or researching your own references.
A host of new options to choose from. I can't speak for the lurking mass,
but at least I find the information below very useful. Thanks a lot. And I'm
sure any other modeller interested in building the Atlantic model will too.
Either those who prefer to have an instant answer as well as those who
choose the hard way to find it out themselves. There is one little thing I
can add to this wealth of information. After your smart suggestion about two
colour samples on the same photograph I managed to dig up this picture:
without a Nimrod, but it does illustrate a colour difference
very well. The Orions in the foreground (except the Canadian Aurora of
course) are painted in a colour which is commonly referred to as extra dark
sea grey. As can be seen it is much darker than the gris bleu clair of the
Atlantics on the background. I must note that at the time this picture was
taken, the Orions had fresh paint and the Atlantics were at the end of their
surface life. So perhaps their grey may have faded.
"Alan Dicey" schreef in
bericht news:WHGgb.5113$ firstname.lastname@example.org...
Thanks very much for that image. It shows for certain that the Atlantic
is _not_ painted Extra Dark Sea Grey as I first guessed.
Would those be Dutch P-3's, in the process of replacing the Atlantics
behind them? It almost looks if the Orions are painted in RAF WWII
vintage Fleet Air Arm colours, Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky! And is
that a Neptune tailfin in the background?
The ex-Dutch Orions were apparantly overhauled by Aerospatiale and then
delivered to the Aeronavale, so it wasn't the end of their service life,
just a change of scene :)
I built the Hasegawa P-3 some time ago, finishing it as an Australian
example using Scalemaster decals. I seem to remember they had a Dutch
example on the sheet too. The Atlantic will be joining it, when finished.
I've now extracted the Scalemaster decal sheet and Hasegawa instructions
from the reference file (never throw away references!). For what its
worth, the Scalemaster sheet gives the colours for P-3C aircraft 300
(which is in your photo) as upper FS36118 (which is Gunship Grey, X130,
H124), lower FS36622 (Camouflage Grey X140, H28). Gunship Grey is
closest to the RAF colour Dark Sea Grey (H164, X004) and not Extra Dark
Sea Grey (H123, X005) which is, of course, darker :).
The Norwegian P-3B on the same sheet is given as FS36118 overall and the
Australian P-3B as Light Gull Grey (FS36440, H129, X137) with white
For completeness, the Hasegawa sheet gives the colours for a Canadian
Aurora as upper FS35237 (H145, X126, and the colour I will paint the
Atlantic), lower FS36375 (Light Compass Grey, H127, X136). This
Canadian scheme is not the one worn by the Aurora in your photograph,
Superficially it seems obvious that Lockheed would deliver the aircraft
painted in the US Fed Stan colours closest to those specified by the
European customer (as happened with US and Canadian built aircraft
during WWII). However, there is a Fed Stan colour close to Extra Dark
Sea Grey (FS36081, Dark Gunship Grey, H32, X129), and it could be that
Scalemaster have mis-identified the colour: we don't know where they got
their information from. Can you say where you got the identification of
Extra Dark Sea Grey from? More information is always better :)
Angelo Falconi in "Manuale delle colorazioni nel plastimodellismo
aereo" , a good book from my point of view ,states for the italian
Atlantics(all the atlantics seems to wear the same colors to me ):
"Grigio mare medio opaco numero 30" = matt medium sea grey number 30
Muppers surfaces: "grigio mare medio numero 3" = medium sea grey number
3, the color replaced by no30 and gives humbrol color HN-1 old
autentic colors= FS 36400
I also have a small pic of an new atlantic and an old tracker flying
in formation if you want it send me an email I will be happy to send
it to you
when I did an italian tracker I used Humbrol 129 F.S. 16440 and it
looked quite good
just can't wait for some italian decals for this Atlantic
remove spamtrap if you want to write to me
Thanks very much for the additional info Paolo. Some more to contemplate. I
wonder what would happen if all these paints would be mixed together.
What I don't understand is why Revell didn't include one more nation to the
decal sheet. Italy seems like a big enough market to me. I hope you will get
the decals. It really is a nice kit.
"Paolo" schreef in bericht
"Drewe Manton" schreef in bericht
The photo must be dating from between 1982 (arrival of the Orions) and 1984
(when the Atlantics were sold) I believe the Neptune in the background was a
single leftover and just standing there after the type was struck off charge
in 1982. b.t.w. one of them went to the Cosford RAF museum.
The Aurora must have been one of the occasional visitors. It is a
quite unusual 'colourful' sight for there ;-)
Well, with the growing of this thread it gradually becomes clear how to
value colour systems, listings and conversion charts doesn't it? The only
reference I have apart from leaflets from MM and Humbrol which next to
colour names also lists colour numbers is a book called Camouflage en
Kentekens. The book is about Dutch military aviation and is a major source
of information for modellers interested in Dutch military aviation. Although
this book isn't flawless either in my opinion. In the system interesting for
modellers it states for extra dark sea grey: FS16099, 26099, X5, X376, H123.
H123 seems to me a reasonable good match for the Dutch Orions in current
livery. But for the livery dating from delivery which was I believe a little
different, the discontinued colour H124 petrol blue seems according to the
paper colour chip in my old Humbrol leaflet not such a bad match after all.
Perhaps a mixture of those two would be near perfect.
After having built quite a number of models of aircraft that had a EDSG camo
in one way or another, I noticed that all these EDSG's can differ
considerably from eachother. If you would ask me, a personal discription of
EDSG would be *a* dark blue grey with sometimes a faint greenish hue in
which all these elements can vary independently. Gris bleu clair is to me an
exciting and exotic variant of sea grey. I know, I should get out more....
p.s. Mr. Nightbus was so kind to post a couple of excellent German Navy
Atlantic pics in alt.binaries.pictures.aviation.
"Alan Dicey" schreef in
bericht news:JZ8hb.5603$ email@example.com...
I think you are right about all above.
What a coincidence! I have enjoyed the very nice Hasegawa kit too a while
ago. And perhaps extend the collection with more of these maritime patrol
aircraft. A Shackleton would be nice too.
I have a Contrail Shackleton in the stash: my father-in-law flew in one
early in his RAF career (which was largely spent on PR Canberra's, along
with Vulcans and Phantoms). What I _really_ want to see is an injection
moulded 1/72 Nimrod . . . I'd buy three at least; one of which would go
with the Atlantic and Orion (most of my friends work has been on Nimrod
avionics, and she is working on the MRA4 project right now).
The ex-Frog Shackleton (an MR3) is available in its Novo guise from
), but marked D for discontinued,
so get your order in quick!
The Hannants site also reveals the awe-inspiring existance of a 1/48
Vacform Shackleton, from Sanger. I'd need an extension to the house . . .
A digression into FedStan numbering. The first digit indicates lustre;
1=gloss, 2=satin, 3=matt. Second digit is a colour series: for instance
5 = blues, 6 = greys. The last three digits are a simple index number;
they run from dark to light (low numbers = darker) but are otherwise not
derived from the colour value. Strictly speaking FS16118 could be a
different color from FS36118, although in practice this has not occurred
FS16099 is very close to FS36081, the designation of EDSG in the FedStan
26099 is a satin finish of the same colour.
X5 is Xtracolor RAF Extra Dark Sea Grey, BS640 (reading it off the tin).
X376 is in Xtracolors range of French colours, and Hannants give it as
OTAN Gris Bleu Fonce (NATO Dark Blue Grey) !
Now we come to an inconsistency in Humbrols naming: all the references I
have list the name of H123 as Dark Sea Grey, but the colour chart I have
(one with actual samples of the paint) clearly shows that this is EDSG,
and also gives it the BS640 designation, which again is EDSG.
So, your author gives the grey colour for Dutch Orions as EDSG.
Indeed he was, and one has a P-3 tail and MAD boom in the foreground:
the P-3 is in two-tone grey, so I'm guessing it is a Dutch example and
the darker grey is a Dark Sea Grey.
I'm not sure why Revell chose not to include Italian markings in the
kit; there are detail differences to the Italian airframes, the most
noticable of which is a large aerial on the fuselage spine, similar in
shape to the fin top of the Atlantic deux, but these could easily be
adressed with small additions to the sprues. So, be prepared to do some
small changes to go with those Marinavia markings :)