Ship Finishing Observation - Why Rarely Weathered??

Actually, a lot more of it than the 1/3 I initially said...most of the boat below the waterline at the saddle tanks is actually exposed pressure hull. But where I look for eveidence of rusting mostly is on the coning towers and around flood holes, and I've seen no evidence of it in pictures I've found of returning boats to the extent modelers depict it.

And those aren't the pictures I'm refering to. I'm refering to ones from private individuals - families of crews meeting the boats at the docks on return from patrol. Those pictures "show what they show", and they don't show rust-buckets.

I'm saying that they were never "touched up" - they were completely refit and freshly painted. I found a source where a surviving U-boat crewman attested to that.

I'm not saying they were "meticulous", but that they were maintaind in much better shape than modelers depict them. Possibly even slightly better than surface vessels because of the short interval between turn arounds, and the fact that they didn't survive very long towards war's end.

I'm thinking not to that great an extent. True, the Milchkuhs were built to extend operational range, but there weren't that many of them - only 10. Again, the historical fact is that the "average" patrol lasted

In contrast, there were 568 of the Type VIIC alone built and commisioned...and that's not an all-inclusive number of the Type VII series, or predecessors and subsequents. I'm thinking there were more than enough boats and crews available (just look at the loss rates...) to maintain the fleet at sea as desired.

what about the Pacific? It took 2 weeks just to get out into the ocean, and then they had to get back to Pearl, or the coast. Those little buggers must have looked pretty bad. Not sure how the Japanese subs would fair as they did not last too long...

Craig

I don't really know much about the war in the Pacific...I haven't done much deep research for my waiting GATO project yet. But I haven't seen any pictures of rusty GATO Class boats either, now that you mention it.

And I'd suppose the duration of a Pacific patrol would also depend on where the boats could port throughout the Pacific theater. They also might have had added support at sea from the in-theater carrier battle group...something I don't believe the U-boat fleet employed to a great extent, being pack-hunter/killers. I dunno...just speculating at this point.

I would think that the standards and requirements for maintaining and operating a diesel submarine of the period would have been pretty well understood and even somewhat common for both the Allies and the enemy. The basic concept is the same for everyone.

-snip-

Dunno. The photos of U-505 immediately after its capture depict a pretty scuzzy looking boat - especially 'round the conning tower.

Cheers,

Zincs were coomon on all warships of the era, usually to provide sacrificial anodes near the props and rudders. Regardless of how smart the German engineers were, they did not always have the materials needed to do the jobs how they should have been. Even the USN cut metallurgical corners on some things at the time because the sheer amount of material needed.

Yes, just like we did when ships came into dryodock for refit or repair.

It's still generally overdone byodellers.

Wrong, photos were often taken officially to document the wear and tear so procedures could be put in place to combat the deleterious effects of the operating environment. USN, RN, DKM, IJN all did it.

Paint on a combat vessel is NOT cosmetic. Paint is considered a protective coating, any "cosmetic" or camouflage effect is strictly an effect of the color chosen. The paints themselves are there to protect the underlying surface and are chemically selected based on the level of protection, the pigmentation is a different matter.

Besides which, lampblack and white lead paint base are dirt cheap.

Photos of US boats returning to Pearl or Mare Island show little obvious rust unless there is also structural damage. Usually you see chipping and wear from hydrodynamic forces exposing the primer. You see more fouling than anything else below the waterline as far as "weathering" goes. I've got close to 1000 publication quality images of Gatos and Balaos all through the war.

Yeah, I've seen these. Scruffy, yes. Rusty, no. Lots of paint wear and chipping on the side casements, some probable salt staining (dunno just what's up on the coning tower but it ain't rust) but not really much evidence of the rust/drip staining so prevalent on models I've seen. I still don't see anything close to how modelers have been depicting weathering on their kits.

Also note the pattern of the decking - nothing like any of the available deck options for U-boat kits. U-505 is a Type IXC, but I've noted this deck pattern on a few pictures purported to be of Type VIIs as well.

And you won't short of structural damage. Just don't confuse grunge or fouling with corrosion.

Subs were not part of carrier battle groups. They are assigned to SubRon's with some attached surface vessels, usually an older light cruiser and some older DD's and a tender. Forward basing was also used, the USN always had minor repait and maintenenace facilities at the forward bases, including floating drydocks.

Subs and surface ships. Take a look at a USN commissioned Liberty and a Maritime Commission Liberty, guess which one looks better most of the time.

Actually, I didn't write this...

Is "fouling" strictly debris and sea-scum sticking to the exterior?

Gotta get my terms right...

...and that was what I was betting.

Good info - thanks. I'll have to do some research on just where those bases were.

When I got to float on USS Lincoln for a few days they had what were called the CO and XO's "Happy Hour"...if I remember right, the sailors got to paint and police the port side during the CO's, and the starboard side during the XO's...

Firefox flaked a bit then.

Fouling is marine growth on the hull, beed it weed, barnacles or other critters. Casement is also incorrect for subs, the correct term is superstructure. Conning tower is also semi-incorrect, technically the CT was inside the sail/fairwater which is the external sheet metal structure commonly called conning tower.

Good bet then.

Ulithi, Manus, Noumea, Australia..........lots of forward bases and fleet depots.

Got me, I don't worry about those kinds of silly things, I work with archival photos and textual records.

That happens...I just switched over to Seamonkey myself. I like the "whole suite" idea.

Ok - I noticed that in the Gato instructions. "Fairwater" vice "coning tower"; and I assumed it was either a US/German thing, or the fact that there are actually covered positions on the Gato one whereas there are not on the Type VII...hence "wintergarten" for the open after plats on the tower. I've heard the term "sail" before, but usually only in conjunction with more modern nuc-boats.

"Superstructure" does make more sense, now that I think about it. Got caught up in the U-boats again - the bow and stern structural fitments to the basic pressure hull are referred to as "casements", or "outer casements" for a U-boat.