tamiya paint question

I've had similar problems. I've managed to avoid stripping layers of fresh paint by being careful not to overbrush, although occasionally it still happens. On dry layers I've succeeded by giving the model a coat of Future before adding the second coat.

I'd be interested to learn of any better methods.

snipped-for-privacy@thornton3966.freeserve.co.uk wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com:

Use other paints!!

I've had the same thing happen too. First thought it was the surface was not degreased enough, then more thoroughly shaked/stirred the paints, used different thinners, nothing helped, it still stripped itself.

Since then I use Pactra Acrylics (I have a very old stash of them and it is running out) But it paints like a paint should.

Anybody know if Pactra still makes it?

I use Tamiya paints ONLY for airbrushing, for which it is VERY good.

HTH

Cheers,

Dennis

towerhobbies.com stocks pactra acrylics in a bottle.

Funny thing about my problem with handbrushing Tamiya paints. I had been extensively handbrushing them on most of my projects (large surfaces) for years and never noticed any problems. Then this year I used them on the simplest of jobs, and the problem now is reality. I have since removed all Tamiya paints from my shelf and will use only Testor and Polyscale acrylics exclusively.

But they may not be the same thing. Since RPM (Testors' parent) got control of Pactra, the formulas may have changed.

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

I am not sure what if any changes testors made to Pactra but it still brushes well. You can watch Micro Mark also. They stock Pactra and will throw out a sale or free freight once in a while.

Tamiya and Gunze acrylics do not brush paint well. Polly Scale, Polly S and the old Aeromaster acrylics (which were all essentially the same formula, I believe) brush paint very well. Use water to thin as you go.

I like the Tamiya clear colors for painting light bulbs and lenses. Beyond that I don't like their paint for brushing or air brushing. Where I find other acrylic paints perform better I would put them all in the category of "third world paints". They are very useful in painting small irregular surfaces, like figures, where surface quality is not noticeable. Acrylic paints have high surface tension, even when extended, and have to be applied heavily to cover well. They also start to cure rapidly and the cure is not reversible so getting good blending with a brush on a large flat surface is a real crap shoot. Acrylics can do quite well when airbrushing if you are doing matt or flat finishes. Acceptable results are very subjective and what looks great to one may look really bad to another. I find that the best way to evaluate your finish is to take a photo of it in the same perspective as the prototype and then compare.

J. Bright

Jim> I like the Tamiya clear colors for painting light bulbs and Jim> lenses. Beyond that I don't like their paint for brushing or Jim> air brushing. Where I find other acrylic paints perform Jim> better I would put them all in the category of "third world Jim> paints". They are very useful in painting small irregular Jim> surfaces, like figures, where surface quality is not Jim> noticeable. Acrylic paints have high surface tension, even Jim> when extended, and have to be applied heavily to cover Jim> well. They also start to cure rapidly and the cure is not Jim> reversible so getting good blending with a brush on a large Jim> flat surface is a real crap shoot. Acrylics can do quite well Jim> when airbrushing if you are doing matt or flat Jim> finishes. Acceptable results are very subjective and what Jim> looks great to one may look really bad to another. I find Jim> that the best way to evaluate your finish is to take a photo Jim> of it in the same perspective as the prototype and then Jim> compare.

Jim, IIRC the clear colors are all enamels (oil-based, thinnable with turpentine). Quite different from the (water-based) acrylics you next mention. I don't believe "3rd world paints" is fair, although there was a time when I cursed water-based acrlyics from Gunze. It is probably true that the water-based acrylics are better for air-brushing than hand-brushing, I agree there. From a technique point of view I suggest NOT to apply heavy coats, but to apply progressive coatings to get required coverage OVER A BASE COAT. This should improve things a lot. I'm still in love with enamels since I grew up with Humbrol, and enthusiastically received Xtracolor.

In general, the laquer-based acrylics seem to be much much better than water-based from an adhesion and drying point - but are much more dangerous to your health. I will recommend Gunze lacquer-based acrlyics any day (that's the Mr. Color label).

Who the heck posted first here??? Regarding Japanese water-based acrylics (Gunze and Tamiya) I suggest not using water, but the company thinning agents instead (either one is fine for both). Less bubbles, better mixing and adhesion - but the problems I experienced could be due to the quality of the water I was having to use.

I'm not sure, but adhesion is definitely less solid than laquer-based acrylics and enamels. It may also depend on what you are thinning it with. Water-based acrylics can rub off easily, and should be sealed if possible (using enamel to seal will allow water-based or lacquer-based acrylic or oil-based enamel to go over in a second coat, camouflage, or what have you).

From health standpoint, please clarify: Tamiya and Gunze are water-based acrylics and Testor PolyScale are lacquer based acrylics? Seems the Tamiya paints have the odor and the Tester paints do not.

No! the acrylic category is all water base. That fact does not make them safer to breath than a solvent based paint. You need the same ventilation and breathing protection for all types of paints as they are probably equally dangerous -- even if you can't smell them.

J. Bright

I just rechecked my stash of Tamyia paints including the clear colors and they still are miscible with water even though they are a few years old. Maybe the formula has been changed in recent years. And I agree -- the term

J. Bright

Jim> No! the acrylic category is all water base. That fact does Jim> not make them safer to breath than a solvent based paint. You Jim> need the same ventilation and breathing protection for all Jim> types of paints as they are probably equally dangerous -- Jim> even if you can't smell them.

Hmm, I have here two categories: water-based acrylics, and lacquer-based acrylics. The former is mixable with water, which is safe, even if the paint itself contains poisons. Painting indoors does not lead to any residual smell although as you point out the poison in the paint is still there. The latter however is mixed with lacquer thinner, which smells A LOT and is poisonous in addition to what is in the paints.

So, what do you call the lacquer-based acrylics?

Jim> I just rechecked my stash of Tamyia paints including the Jim> clear colors and they still are miscible with water even Jim> though they are a few years old. Maybe the formula has been Jim> changed in recent years. And I agree -- the term 3rd world Jim> paints is not right --5th world would probably be much Jim> better.

You're probably using 5th world paints then, from decades back. My clear (e.g. X-27 clear red) are all labelled "enamel". Tamiya produces the enamels in rather narrow square-section 10ml glass jars. If you're into paint comparisons, I suggest you give those enamels a whirl and see how you like them. As for lacquer-based acryls, I really like the Gunze Mr. Color. Quick drying, thin layers with coverage, asy to clean.

Just to be clear (ha!), Tamiya clear paints are produced in both enamel and acrylic. They even have clears available in their lacquer spray line.

John> Just to be clear (ha!), Tamiya clear paints are produced in John> both enamel and acrylic. They even have clears available in John> their lacquer spray line.

Haha, the thlot plickens, eh :-)

"Count DeMoney" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

OK, thanks all.

I'll take a look at tower hobbies and Micro Mark.

Cheers,

Dennis