Can I get OverTime???

I have a question, most positions I've seen for a "Designer" have stated salary plus overtime. I'm getting a promotions from a designer/drafter to a designer, and my company is saying a designer position is salary and they don't pay overtime. I'll be doing the exact same job, just changing title and the pay increase is just over my current base rate at 40 hours a week. Since I average about 2-3 hours a week of overtime, it will be a pay cut. Can they actually not pay me for overtime, if I work more than 40 hours? Fair Labor Standards Act state for managers, doctors, teachers, supervisors, engineers, ("professionals") etc. do not have to get paid for overtime. Does a "Designer" fall into this category?

Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Matt

Reply to
-Matt
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the reality of the situation is that, regardless of the relevant laws, you're not going to get OT at that company. You might be able to force them to pay you the OT, but I suspect that you'd soon find yourself unemployed if you did....

That being said--negotiate a better salary for the new job before you take it; they're going to have an awfully hard time justifying a promotion that comes with a pay cut

Reply to
Michael

Michael's advice is right on. If you can not get a base increase to cover overtime, you will be getting a promotion with a pay cut. Often, the company will counter with a promise of time off for overtime worked but this promise is seldom honored.

Good Luck,

Dennis

-Matt wrote:

Reply to
dennis deacon

I'll add my "Amen" to what Matt and Dennis wrote. But don't be bitter . . . it's just the way of the world. If you stay at 2 or 3 hours over 40 then count yourself lucky. But certainly you can ask the Human Resources people for more compensation -- just don't be surprised if you don't get any. Nowadays you're expected to give up three steps for every two you take, and that's the way it is almost everywhere. Just go see if you can find a seasoned salesman on commission who hasn't increased his sales for a company at one time or another only to find his company cutting back on his commission percentage. It ain't right, but it's what you can expect from a society of individuals who've been taught that "me first" is the correct way of looking at everything.

'Spork' "But I would not feel so all alone . . . EVERYBODY must get stoned."

-Matt wrote:

Reply to
Sporkman

As I understand it, in the US the Bush administration and the Republicans are planning on elimination almost all overtime pay for most people.

IIRC The existing US Federal law already eliminated overtime pay (as a requirement) if you are involved with computers or make over ~$20/Hr. anyway.

So you may not have much to worry about anyway.

See latest news:

HTH

Reply to
Cliff Huprich

After a quick look at the article, it looks like the proposal is to update existing regulations. They author says that lower income workers will have more guarantees for overtime pay, and requirements for overtime will be relaxed for higher paid worker (over 60k or so. I forgot the number already).

So this would not be an elimination of overtime, but an update of regulations from 1938 to better match modern figures. As I read the article's interpretation of the bill, that is...

Reply to
Dale Dunn

your literal reading is correct, if incomplete--

the problem comes in that they define "lower income" as less than $21k per year. At incomes higher than that, it becomes SIGNIFICANTLY easier for the employer to define the employee as exempt, making them ineligible for OT. The goal of the regulation is to create an official class of $25k/year "managers"....

Reply to
Michael

interesting...

Reply to
Dale Dunn

No overtime for people earning more than $21k? bloody disgraceful! Work in the UK, $100k AND overtime pay AND time off, if more than 7 hours worked overtime. Well I WAS dreaming, lol :-) But on a serious note, if they require that you work overtime, ask them, what hours overtime they would expect you to do each week and get that added to your salary. No extra cash, no overtime, PERIOD. If they think a lot of you, they will pay, if they don't, then it's time to move on!

Reply to
pete

First - you ought to change your identity on this newsgroup. There has been a 'matt' (lower case 'm') active here for years, and it would be a much appreciated courtesy to those of us who are old and inflexible if we only had to keep track of one. I dig the name 'mroyalty'... why not go with that?

Now, onto the money thing. Yeah, it sort of sucks to have to work an extra

18 man-days over the year (by my calculations of 3hrs a week overtime minus the 4 work weeks we typically get off in the states after 2 weeks of vacation and ten paid holidays). But, on the flip side, its nice to be on salary because you get paid when you are sick, on holidays, and when you are on vacation. And if you want to move on in the world, you have to go through this step.

What is left to you is negotiation. All salaries are in flux - they are an agreement between an employer and employee, and that agreement can change. You have a strong case in that you are taking a pay cut to get this 'promotion'. They have to sell you on the benefit of it, or you can decline or go elsewhere. If you have a good vibe about the company being worth the bother and have the guts to stand up (risking termination) you can insist on some sort of pay raise, increase in benefits, or professional opportunity in the near future to compensate you for the added responsibility. Comp time (when things get slow) is a wonderful option that you can explore. Get whatever you agree to in writing. It is actually appreciated (as long as you are not a dick about it), and a sign of professionalism, because they can also use it to hold you to your end of the bargain (be sure to stress that part)

But I would recommend that you go easy on the extra three hours of work a week after you make your case about the pay cut - if you make it a continuing issue, they will then have an excuse to watch you like a hawk during your work week to be sure you are up and running exactly at the beginning of the day, super productive every minute of your shift, don't take breaks to joke with the guys or take extra long craps, and don't leave a second early for lunch or the end of the day. A 43 hour week is nothing -

45+ hours is the line where it starts to matter.
Reply to
Edward T Eaton

Thanks for all the responses.

I tried negotiating for better salary, but they are sticking by their "guns". Their reason for the salary they offered is because it's the going rate in this area for a Designer. HR said when I was hired in as a Drafter/Designer, but with my experience I was getting a Designer rate.

All salary employees are required to work 40 hours a week (min.), as I have been told. And we do not get paid sick time, if we are off a day for being sick we are required to make up the time or use a vacation day. And if doesn't matter if the week prior you worked 50+ hours. The way things are done around here are screwy, i.e. pay raises are not based on performance and the person that does your performance review can't increase or decrease the pay raise.

The only benefit to make this move is because they won't promote a drafter/designer to an engineer. And I should be promoted to an engineer after I get my degree, which will be in another year. I won't get promoted until I have received that piece of paper, even though I do exactly the same things as our engineers do and maybe more.

I work in the New Product Development area, so during the brainstorm and product research time I don't work more than 40 hours a week. But after we decide on a design I work close to 60 hours a week working on fine tuning the designs, testing designs, etc. And over the past few years I've averaged about 150-160 hours of overtime.

Thanks again for you comments..

-Matt

PS - I've been on this board for about 3 years, so I'm not changing my name. I've had to change it a few times because I have forgotten my password though.

Reply to
-Matt

My mistake. I'll keep an eye out for the dash and capitalization to keep you differentiated from Mr Lombard..

Sorry about the pay thing. Good luck with the promotion in a year.

Reply to
Edward T Eaton

If they can't figure out that performance and pay should be closely tied, I would be looking for a better place to work. If they can't get the basics right, how are they going to survive?

Once you have the degree, it shouldn't matter much what your previous job title was. Maybe you should stick with the drafter/designer title till then. On the other hand, if they are getting sticky about it, it's not good to piss off your boss. But if they get sticky about stuff like this and can't figure out the tie between performance and pay, I'd be looking elsewhere.

I

Welcome to the world of engineering, where credentials often count more than achievement!

Welcome to the world of engineering!

Jerry Steiger Tripod Data Systems

Reply to
Jerry Steiger

'And we do not get paid sick time, if we are off a day for being sick we are required to make up the time or use a vacation day. And if doesn't matter if the week prior you worked 50+ hours.'

you're kidding right? don't you people in the US have basic worker rights defined in law? whets a union for? why would you work for a company like this???

Reply to
neil

Lots of companies in the US have moved away from differentiating between sick leave and vacation. This happened at Hewlett-Packard many years ago when I worked there. At that time, I got two weeks of vacation and two weeks of sick pay and I almost never used the latter. The company switched to three weeks of flex time (combined vacation and sick time). I came out a week ahead. The folks I knew who were always calling in sick on Friday or Monday lost out. I think most people liked the new system.

Jerry Steiger Tripod Data Systems

Reply to
Jerry Steiger

Hi Matt.

Ideally, when one makes this transition, I have seen some compenstaion in salary generally about 10-15% to "offset" overtime. This was during good times.

If you will take this position, you should realize one good thing - you have crossed out of the pool of "laborers" and are viewed as a "professional". This is a minor distinction, but generally "laborers" usually underearn "professionals" over their lifespan.

There are some up sides to this - "preofessionals" get some control over their time allocation. In my experience, an "salary" employee will be able to leave early one day without loss of pay, an "hourly" will not be allowed to do that. A salary person will generally get better opportunities in an organisation.

Also, the president of your company is most likely a salary employee who works "uncompensated overtime" so to speak and probably earns a good living this way. You are moving in the right direction.

But if the company has made you salaried and reduced your effective earnings, then they have made a mistake. If the job market were strong, and you were not happy, the remedy would be easy, but alas . . .

Regards,

SMA

Reply to
Sean-Michael Adams

Things must be bad in the good old USA!

Two weeks vacation a year? In good old blighty, it's fives weeks a year :-)

Two weeks paid sick leave? Six weeks here :-) If it is a long term sick leave, you can get up to six months paid, depending on the company( mine pays)

And all this is without a union in sight!

Reply to
pete

The US has lagged behind most of Europe in workers' rights and benefits for decades. But (generally speaking) it shows in our economy that we work (as an average) substantially more than most European workers. Which would you prefer? Honestly it really should be a matter of preference -- but speaking in terms of economics over the last half century or so, about the only way you can have a more reliably robust economy and high potential for great personal wealth is to move to the US. And about the only way we can have better benefits is to move to Europe. I'm not saying that's the way it should be. I'm saying that's the way it apparently is, and that one reason it's that way is that there is at least some correlation to average hours worked.

'Spork'

pete wrote:

Reply to
Sporkman

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