Why would anyone want to be an engineer in the USA today?

Why would anyone go through the four to five long years of torture in the school of engineering and then find out there are too few good jobs in this self-inflicted dried up economy? During this time you lived in the library or in the lab preparing for the next day while the business majors are partying. You have no social life or at least deprived of a good one. After your parents refinanced their house and now in the hole for over $100,000 in exchange for that piece of sheepskin with your name on it, you are now out in the job marketplace with no or very little work related experience on your resume. You are now competing against some very experienced and desperate unemployed PEs, PhDs and ScDs. God help you if you're not from the top 10% in your class form MIT or Berkeley. Now you are in the unenviable position to be under experienced for an engineering position and over qualified for others. Assuming you're the lucky few, you will work long hours like a dog, with unpaid overtime, just to protect you job. At the same time we have had and are having an influx of some very good foreign engineers who are willing to take your job at a fraction of your wages and are willing to work even longer hours. Long hours, long commute, relative low pay with no overtime, no job stability or security, company going offshore and outsourcing and the union blue-collar worker next door makes about as much as you do, more with overtime, and he is at the job site at

7am and go home by 3pm while you're just warming up. Couple of general contractors I know, who makes too much money as they said, works 6 months and then go fishing, hunting or whatever for the other six. My auto body friend who owns a shop and brings in well over half a million a year, same with my lawyer in-laws who have to take 4 months off for vacation around the world every year. Further, IEEE is a joke. It's a money making machine collecting dues, insurance, books and whatever it gets its hands on but don't depend on it if you're unemployed or in search for a better career path. Unlike IEEE, the medical and law professional organizations must be doing something right to promote a high living standard. If that wasn't enough, if you still have an engineering position by age 40, you are either burned out, too old and obsolete or considered a failure if you haven't gone into management. Enough ranting and my bias views, I'm back to cleaning my rooms.
Reply to
impaid
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Good idea. Cleaning rooms appears to be your true calling.

Reply to
BFoelsch

What's wrong with cleaning rooms? Property value has gone up 100% during the last two years, much more than you ever make as an engineer.

Reply to
impaid

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:37:47 -0800, "impaid" Gave us:

Good engineers have no problems getting jobs... here... in the US.

Fail another test, did ya?

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:37:47 -0800, "impaid" Gave us:

Dude... study some text formatting and grammar. Your room can wait.

No wonder you don't get hired. Your cover letter probably looks horrendous, or you get some unsuspecting victim (the company you apply at) to believe that the one you had your friend complete for you and submitted to them is YOUR handiwork.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:34:29 -0500, "BFoelsch" Gave us:

snipped tripe!

Knowing how to quote properly in Usenet is apparently NOT one of yours. Bone up, boy.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:43:44 -0800, "impaid" Gave us:

If you clean house, and keep it up the same way you type, it'll surely burn down before you get to sell it...

Also, not knowing a thing about the person, you do not know what he makes. Major flawed logic. He could easily be a $400 + dollar an hour consulting engineer for all you know. Don't try to claim they aren't out there (in the US) either.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Are you saying $400+ an hour for 2,000 man hours or over $800,000 year after year independent of the economy? That is unusual, but not impossible, if you don't already know it. How about overhead in marketing? Say 500 man-hours for marketing and proposals and now he is down to 1,500 man-hours? How about engineering insurance? $100,000 isn't out of line for exposure if he charges $400+ per hour. A nice engineering office in downtown San Francisco to go with the $400+ per hour fee would be around $100 per foot in a nice high rise building, if I'm not too far off. Say a nice 400sf one man office will come to $40,000 per year. Traveling and entertainment expenses say at 10% of $800,000 or $80,000 would not be out of line ether. Got to spread a little cash to get the contracts. So far he nets $380,000 before tax and other expenses. Federal income and Social Security taxes will kill him if he has no other deductions. I suspect he would net around $270,000 as a WAG. It's still pretty good but property investment is still better from my perspective. Compounded about 10% year over year on long term basis and no tax liability up to $500,000 per couple per house or no tax liability if you do a 1031 exchange for income property. What do you know, cleaning rooms is still better. My previous comments were referring to employed engineers, not employers or consultants. And realistically how many of you make $400+ an hour? I wish you all do.

Reply to
impaid

Are you saying we have too many bad US educated engineers and not the fault of the economy or US policy? Are you one of those who will not admit to 9/11 and the dotcom fallout? We have not recovered from the hi tech stock market crash. No problem getting jobs? For how much longer? We are in a five year engineering cycle and your pink slip is on its way. GM going down, Intel won't hire US engineers, our industries going offshore, China is killing us, Russia has excellent engineers for a friction of you wage, our country is going broke from unchecked spending, and so on and on. With the exception of entertainment, corporate takeovers and agriculture, we don't produce much of anything anymore since the 70s - its done in foreign countries if you didn't noticed. Most of the electronic industries from the 40s and 50s are gone. We are not respected anywhere around the world - its dangerous to be an American. We don't have big, big foreign Bechtel, Fluor and Brown & Root construction projects in the multi billion dollar range like we had in the

60s and 70s. We have given our industrial and military secretes away and classified documents that are common knowledge - backwards! Our middle class is shrinking while the poor is getting poorer and the rich is getting richer. Does this mean our tax base is in trouble or will be soon? Don't think this will have any effect on you? Is you job bullet proof? Have your wages kept up with inflation during the last 5 years? If you have not been out of a job yet then you have not been an engineer for too long. What I was saying is why suffer through engineering school, assuming you're going graduate work, when you could be in law school with about the same amount of effort and make some serious money. I know most engineers being what they are will be engineers no matter.
Reply to
impaid

I don't know you from Jack but you seem to go out of you way to pick on my typing and grammar but offer no substance or meaningful dialog. Far from it, you do not have the logic or competence of an engineer. Your assumptions are way off, I don't need to work for anyone and have not for a number of years. Do you want to discuss the state of engineering or do you want to pick on my grammar? Never mind, I know the answer already.

Reply to
impaid

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:47:27 -0800, "impaid" Gave us:

Typically, consultants don't pull 40 hour work weeks. DUFUS.

Get a clue.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:47:27 -0800, "impaid" Gave us:

Yet you still do not know what a paragraph is.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:35:30 -0800, "impaid" Gave us:

Look, dingledorf, if you can put so much of your time into constructing 500+ word posts, that YOU think are so well thought out, why can you not spend 10ms of your brain time putting it on the page correctly?

You claim to have offered something, but I'll clue you, your formatting causes you to be added to kill filters before a single line gets read.

In other words, even your dialog is without meaning if you don't have the time to present in an other than completely ugly way. That is aside from the overtly opinionated, under-informed manner that you put it forth with.

You see, it is you that doesn't have the competence of an engineer, particularly when you make such declarations.

I f you have no need to work, why are you in here, jacking off at the mouth? You are so far out of touch... and it shows.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

Roy tone may be heavy handed but I have to agree with all of content in his reply.

I found myself skipping through most of the OP verbose ranting. In forty years of engineering I got laid off twice. First time I had a job offer before the pink slip, I knew it was coming. Second time I was out for four month and found a better job.

As an engineer you are not likely to be rich, still is very possible, but you will be comfortable, your skills are portable, even to Russia if you think that is a better place to live. You work in an environment where the dumbest of your coworkers is well above average and you can have enriching dialogs. Exposure to the ignoramus is minimal.

From your writing it appears that you do not enjoy the hard study involved and your logic is flawed telling me you are not cut out for a scientific career. Save yourself money and frustration, join the beer party and consider switching major to one of the following:

-Comparative Religions

-Business Amin.

-Advertising and Mass media communication.

-Cosmetology

-Political "science" or is it sciences

Any one of those has the potential to make you really rich, but then again it depends on you.

Mauro

Reply to
MG

Some of us, like seaside rock, have a word written through our very core

- and that word is *Engineer*.

Unfortunately, like Rincewind, *knowing* what you are isn't necessarily the best thing. But, basically, you are what you are.

Asking for a soldering station as a 12th birthday present, instead of a party dress, probably means that you are doomed and might as well accept it*.

Reply to
Palindr☻me

Why would you subtract the 500 hours from the 2000 hours? No problem puting a few extra hours to do marketing.

And why an office in San Fran? Or any high rent city? All you need is an office within easy reach of an airport.

Charles Perry P.E.

Reply to
Charles Perry

Why? Because he's found a good job at a good company and is doing what he loves, meaning he'll play instead of work at that job.

The poster is rationalizing what is apparently his own unwillingness to do what it takes. Or he's trying to be a computer whiz!

Reply to
Pop

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500, "Pop" Gave us:

Hey, dufus! If you do not quote the text to which you are replying, nobody know who you are referring to or what the f*ck you are talking about. This ain't e-mail, idiot.

Bone up on Usenet posting protocols, POPS. BEFORE you interlope into the forum.

Reply to
Roy L. Fuchs

In the USA, *Engineer* is derived from "engine". In Europe the word

*engeneur* means ingenious one. This may determine the US lay person's regard for engineers. Since I also have a degree in Physics, and work in the space arena, I've become known as a "rocket scientist" which has better connotations. ;-)

I consider myself ingenious, but I still like to play with engines! :-) Perhaps I am really ingenuous, or perhaps it is ingenerate as you suggest.

In my case it was an Erector Set instead of a football.

"If it's not fun, don't do it!"

Reply to
VWWall

Why not 40 as a starting point? Some work 10 while others work 80 hours per week. What number do you like to use? What's your point, you have on idea.

Ok DUFUS, name 10 electrical engineering consultants who make $400+ per hour. Show us the websites and fee schedules.

Reply to
Jack

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