New PC Spec, I'm finaly going to spend the money

Hi John comments - dollar is going to fall further best get in... I would go for 2 raptors but not in RAID 0 - put pagefile and backup on no.2 ...and reallocate sum for SATA Caviar - and 2gb of 4gb to getting faster processor - others may have different views.

reasons - I think raptors are fast enough without RAID 0 and some things like Ghost and Partition Commander don't work with it. More vulnerability to disk problems. As you know SW depends on processor hp rather than disk speed for everyday effectiveness. Add ram latter if deficient but 2gb takes you a long way with 32 bit. Most likely as individual don't have need for large assy machine. I wonder if would not be better to get win64 first off and run SW32bit on it for future proofing - assuming drivers are available for printer etc. that said Vista is not far away - I have tried to get answers re SW compatibility from SW but they are not talking :o( If you are a betting man might be better to shift money to US dollars and wait? HTH regards neil

I would echo Neil somewhat here. I was thinking of bumping one of the Raptors to the 74GB model (or one of the new, larger ones I think I read about), and swap the other for another Gig of RAM. If you have enough memory, you don't need a fast drive just for a swap file, because you won't be using it.

Most of my jobs are small to medium sized assemblies, I do on occasion have to work with one of my clients large-ish assemblies in excess of

1,000 parts.

This motherboard will only support max 4GB. From what someone else has just told me, and after a little reading, AMD chips can only run 4Gb

400DDR memory at 333DDR speeds. They can only run 2Gb of 400DDR memory at full speed, can some else confirm this?

That is pretty much what we set up at work but without all the HD. If you can get into a 4800+ you would be doing yourself a favor. The dual core definitely speeds up rendering.

It's not so much the total capacity, as the number of banks of memory, which may or may not relate to the number of memory modules. My system can basically handle a pair of DIMMs at DDR400.

You can probably download the manual for the motherboard you're looking at, which should have an explanation of these limitations. I think the motherboard may be a factor as well, but I'm not sure, with the AMD chips having the integrated memory controller. Let me consult my manual here... Ok, it is telling me that max system memory is 2 Gigs. Must be an Opteron or FX is necessary for more, with their dual channel memory controllers. Newer versions of the Athlon64 may be different, so I would really recommend checking the manual.

I can work on assemblies approaching 1000 parts (machining fixtures with some imported castings), and start running into 1200MB on 2006, according to the task manager.

HTH

Obviously you want to maximize performance/cost ratio. What type of work you are doing is important for justifying your purchases.

The RAID-0 will be beneficial if application launching and large file opening are important to you. If you do work on 500-1000 component assemblies regularly then using a RAID-0 array for your assembly storage would be beneficial. If you do not work on assemblies like this regularly then I would suggest dropping the RAID-0. You are essentially doubling your chances of hard drive failure. If either drive fails then it will take the data on the other one out with it.

The quadro card is a very good choice.

For your backup drive I would recommend a Firewire version. Firewire uses less CPU (although you do have tons of horsepower) and typically has higher sustained transfer speeds despite USB 2.0 having higher theoretical transfer. 400mb vs 480mb for those counting. Newer firewire supports speeds of 800mb.

As far as memory the Corsair is a good choice. You can run 4Dimms at ddr400 as long as you get one of the newer 90nm core chips. These have an enhanced memory controller. However, you MUST use a 2T command rate if you have 4 dimms and any of them are double-sided. You can use 1T command rate if you use 4 single-sided dimms. 1T vs. 2T equates to

10-15% difference in memory performance. But of course we now come back to the all important question - does RAM speed significantly affect SolidWorks performance? I believe the answer is not much. If I were you I would say to myself - how often do I run out of memory these days? If it is often then go for four double-sided dimms. If it is not often then go for 2 single-sided dimms and leave yourself open for upgrades later on.

I wouldn't bother with 64-bit windows at this point in time. The biggest advantage it gives you is addressing large memory spaces - and you aren't going to have a mobo that supports >4gb anyway.

Thanks for the info guys.

Next Question should I use ECC RAM, I'm wondering if this would increase stability?

John Layne

Are there any Mobos that will support more than 4gb, currently available?

True enough about the interface, but external drives can't saturate either bus type. A really fast external drive could conceivably deliver a bit over

50MB/s. So USB would not limit tranfers, except for short bursts from the drive's cache (probably 8MB). My external USB (7200 rpm 120GB) got about 30-35MB/s when I checked it.

Tough call. You'll lose a bit of speed, but maybe make up for it in fewer crashes. Either way, it'll cost more, and require an Opteron or AthlonFX

Ok didn't realize that AMD 64 Dual cores can't run ECC RAM, geeze this gets more complicated by the minute. Just when I thought I was getting a handle on new hardware, another variable comes along!

Luckily I only have to educate myself on this stuff every 3 years.

Maybe a dual CPU Machine, but then I suppose I'd need twice the memory- aaarhhhghhgh

John Layne

"John Layne" stability?

I can't give you a definitive answer, as we've never bought any ECC RAM, but I can give you some anecdotal information. We have more crashes than your typical user seems to have, so it could be argued that non-ECC RAM is no good. On the other hand, I've run overnight memory tests many times with never a failure. That makes me think that memory isn't our problem.

Jerry Steiger Tripod Data Systems "take the garbage out, dear"

true enough missed the size yeah ok maybe go for a single 74 gb, 2-3gb ram and a firewire backup to get you going and spend saved money on faster processor later ;o)

It _can_ get a little hairy.

You wouldn't need twice the memory for a dual socket system. 32 bit XP Pro doesn't support NUMA memory architecture, so only one processor socket could directly access system RAM anyhow. It doesn't matter, because the latest Opteron and AthlonFX processors are dual core. You'll have to check the individual models to make sure you select a dual core, but they are available.

WHAT! the FX series are Dual Core! (last time I looked they were single, I have to start reading more computer mags) : ) Looks like I need to sub contract out this computer specification exersise.

It seems really hard to find a vendor in NZ that doesn't just specialise in gamming machines, suppose that's where the money is.

Thanks for your help

John Layne

In terms of ECC vs non-ECC you actually get better performance with non-ECC. ECC is of course error checking and that of course takes time. You can drop in a dual-core opteron and pick up ECC memory but I doubt it's worth the additional cost.

For processor don't worry about the FX. Yeah it has more cache, but CAD is not a software system that relies heavily on cache. Try looking for some benchmarks of an equivalently clocked athlon64 with 512 vs 1mb caches. I bet the results are the same.

Although it is true throughput can't be hit by a hard drive, the CPU hit from USB is not necessary when for the same price you can get firewire or even firewire/usb combo.

I'd throw together Athlon64X2 - fastest you can afford.

2GB non-ecc memory - preferably in single sided dimms at 1T command rate quadro card Asus A8N-Premium (i believe that the Northbridge heatpipe requires vertical orientation of the mobo - so make sure you use a tower case.) 74gb raptor for OS partition 250gb backup drive - I actually use seagate because they have a 5 year warranty. If you are going to be stressing the hard drive a lot then the five year warranty is definitely worth it. I've burned through a dozen drives and they always seem to go between the 3 and 4 year marker. Seagate has been very solid (and quiet).

Good luck on the build!

Look at Tyan for mobos that are purpose built to handle gobs of RAM. They are built to a higher standard than gaming boards. They are a bit pricier.

I personaly use ASUS for most builds, but did a server in Tyan and was impressed.

I run ECC registered memory. The system seems to be very stable and crashes less than the Dells and even the AMDs with standard ram. It could be the user though. :)

John, I actually imported a XI last time because I couldn't find what I wanted here. Any offerings from HP Compaq etc were about 6mths behind and only modest spec. Probably build my own next time though - there are a few sources of parts in NZ