AC - The Montreal River Trestle

Building this trestle:

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Is the only thing that stands between me and true happiness!

Madness, you say? Not at all! I'm working in N-scale, so it will only be TEN FEET LONG!!! Bwahahahahah!

Plans! I need plans! Elevations, details, photos - especially of the dam - the spillways, surge towers and powerhouse.

I have a dozen or more photos, but they're all taken from the train, or from the side. Not a single one shows the entire bridge!

Alas, I have so many questions that just a few engineering drawings would answer.

Like:

- How many towers? I *think* I see 15.

- What is the degree and length of curvature at each end?

- Is the section above the dam straight? Looks that way in the photos.

- Is there a grade? What about superelevation on the curves?

- How do the ties meet at joining sections on the curve?

- Or are they graduated through the entire curve?

- When were the outer walkway and railings added?

- What are the speed and tonnage limits?

- Did passenger trains ever slow down or stop for picture taking?

- Are there sidings at both ends?

And so on...

I'm planning a trip there next fall, but I'd like to get my ducks lined up before I visit the site because time will be limited, and with my luck, it will be pouring rain.

I also have a few questions on construction technique. This thing has to disassemble into reasonable sized pieces. No problem for the base modules, but the bridge has to come apart too. Making the deck from one piece of laminated birch makes sense, but the towers have to disconnect from both the deck and base. I'm thinking Lego bricks here. A firm connection, but easy to pull apart. Has anyone ever tried this? Is there a better approach?

My quest has just begun. Give me a sign, oh Mighty Internet, that I may complete this project without getting totally over my head.

Huzzah!

Mac B. Vancouver BC

Reply to
polar bear
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Mac B. :

I don't know about the Lego bricks. I think it might be wiser to attach the short sections above the towers permanently to the said towers, and let the spans sit between them, perhaps held by small, concealed nuts and bolts. I can't help you with the plans, though.

Cordially yours, Gerard P.

Reply to
pawlowsk002

That sounds good from the standpoint of making the tower assemblies more sturdy, but what about the deck? My idea was to build that out of a continuous piece of birch plywood, which I think is the least prone to warping (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), and attach all the plate-girders to the sides. Should I consider each span as a separate assembly (there are 16) and just have the deck drop into place once the spans are assembled?

Basically, I'm trying to avoid having any breaks in the deck, although I might have to do that in the middle. That would give me 2 pieces 5 ft long, instead of a potentially unwieldy 10 ft section. Now that I think about it, I should probably do that, or it won't fit in my future tiny economy car, which I'll be forced to buy because gas is $10 a gallon.

OK, that's one thing out of the way. The deck breaks in the middle.

I still like the idea of using lego pieces though. I have an image of each leg of a tower matching up with a one-brick in the base. I can't see any other way out, because nearly half the legs connect at an angle to the dam itself. At the top of the tower there's room for a 6X6 lego flat to flat connection, which would be hidden by the girders.

My approach gives me 15 towers, and 2 deck sections. Your approach gives me 15 towers, 16 spans, and 2 deck sections, if I'm reading you right. A lot of assembly there. Maybe I just should forget Lego and use velcro on the top? There's going to be some alignment issues if I make it too rigid, right?

Damn... I'm kind of stuck with making it come apart, not the least because I move around a lot, but also because having put that much work in, I'd want to take it to shows, and set it up as a loop.

Maybe I should just model a Vermont shortline ;)

Thanks for the suggestion, Gerard. I'll give it some careful thought.

Mac B.

Reply to
polar bear

Looks to me that it's either straight, or at least less curved than the end sections.

No, neither that I can recall (at the north end it immediately enters a horse-shoe curve and cut.

I've just reviewed the pix of our trip -- we took a *ton* of that bridge (for the same purpose as you). I'll try to pull out some of the most informative to send. Bother me at the OVAR webmaster address and I might even remember my promise ;-).

-- Kizhe

Reply to
Lt. Kizhe Catson
[...]

From information In Wilson's The Algoma Central Story:

1550ft long, 130ft high at the centre, designed 1902, erected 1911. The dam was poured around the trestle's towers when the Montreal River was dammed for a hydro-electric project. The trestle is on a curve. The spans between the towers and on the towers themselves are straight.

From Tracks of the Black Bear:

15 girder spans 30ft long, 10 girder spans 60ft, 5 girder spans 75ft, and one of 40ft. The greatest length of the tower legs is 114' 9-1/2", and at at its highest the bridge is 130ft above the water.

The 30ft spans are the ones on the towers, and the other between the towers. Note that all spans are straight, and meet each other at different angles, depending on their length and curveture. The span lengths are measured on the centreline. The sequence of the spans is not given, but the odd-ball spans between towers would be at the ends. The curve starts before the southern abutment, and begins to straighten out before the northern abutment.

In HO, and exact scale model would be about 18ft between abutments. The length across the chord would be less, but I don't have the curve data to estimate it. Height would be 1.5 ft above water level (below the dam.)

HTH

Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir

Will do, and thanks a bunch!

Mac B.

Reply to
polar bear

Yep. That matches what I've got. For anyone following this, the dam was built in 1935, so leave it out if you model the early years. You can follow prototype and cast a plaster dam around the bridge when you decide to move forward in time . The dam is called MacKay, as far as the power company is concerned, although I think it's generally known as the Montreal Falls (or River) Dam.

Speaking of the falls, were they immediately below the bridge? From the wear pattern on the rocks below, I'd say yes, but it's hard to really tell without those shots of the base and spillway areas. I have one old pre-dam photo, but as usual it's taken from the train and doesn't show any of the lower detail.

I presume that means the watercourse as measured before the dam was built? Probably the same as the bottom of the main spillways. I don't suppose anyone has the angle of the tower legs, or their base area (which would give you the angle) Must be a standard engineering angle, no? I've got an old copy of Mallery's Bridge & Trestle Handbook, but it's not mentioned in there. To the bat-web, Robin!

It does indeed. Thanks a lot Wolf!

Mac B.

Reply to
polar bear

Having been a land surveyor for a number of years i'd suggest contacting all the surveyors in your area. The older the better! These people will know how to get the topography maps of the area for starters. And i've never known a surveyor that hadn't had some other useful information of the area. This might be a good source for your endeavors...

Reply to
Big Rich Soprano

Thanks Rich. I'll see who I can scare up on the net. Unfortunately, I don't live in the area, I'm on the west coast. I think it's probably time I took this over to the Algoma Yahoo board to see what they have. I started here first because it's a more active board, and also because I had some ideas I wanted to share, as well as to just hang out.

You guys have all been very helpful, and I sure do appreciated it. Of all the different hobbies and interests I've pursued over the years, I keep coming back to model railroading, not the least because the people involved are so friendly and helpful.

Mac B. Vancouver BC

Reply to
polar bear

Rats i thought you were close... Hmm... Well there's always the phone book for that area, might be the place to start and dare i say it - The Historical Society of the area.

Reply to
Big Rich Soprano

The address in your header bounced. I've got about 10M of jpegs for you, if you can give me a functioning one. This gmail account is basically a spam trap, so send it to snipped-for-privacy@ovar.ca.

-- Kizhe

Reply to
Lt. Kizhe Catson

done

Mac

Reply to
polar bear

p.b. :

You're right that my suggestion would end up in a lot of assembly. I still think it would be better than assembling all the towers to a single span. When I try to visualize attaching 7 towers to a deck section at once, and keeping them attached while placing the bridge, or alternately, trying to simultaneously link 28 Lego pins, I start getting doubts. It was hard enough to pop my Lego buildings back together sometimes when their roofs fell off...

Much better, in my opinion, to make only 2 joints at a time. In fact, you wouldn't need the nuts and bolts - build the deck sections as you wish from plywood, and put wooden dowel pins on the spans to drop through holes in the tower girders. To eliminate any need for ridiculous precision, fix the track to the spans, but use short pieces of sectional track 'N-trak style' to connect them, allowing them to float as they rest on the tower girders. Another advantage: you could pack the girders and towers much more compactly; they would be less liable to break. Putting down your 14 towers, and dropping in 16 spans, then connecting the tracks, should take no more than twenty minutes, I think, and the extra assembly would (in my opinion) save some headaches.

You want an assembly that is sturdy, positive, and forgiving. Modeling a VT shortline wouldn't necessarily get you out of building high trestles, either... the Kinzua Viaduct that used to stand near here was a rather lightly-used line for years, owned last by the Knox, Kane, and Kinzua R.R., and was (I think) the highest iron viaduct in the world.

Cordially yours, Gerard P. President, The Sparta Railroad.

Reply to
pawlowsk002

snip------

I see your point. Maybe I should use velcro instead? That would resolve any horizontal adjustment issues.

Could do. I was thinking of using Microengineering bridge flex-track, with modified KATO joiners for the breaks. I want to have as clean a look, and run, as possible. I'm hoping KATO joiners will solve electrical issues. If I'm making the deck in sections, I don't want to run feeders if I can avoid it.

Good points. I'm leaning more towards sturdy, where the deck is concerned. Two, maybe three deck+span sections, attached to the towers with velcro? Towers attached to birch-ply base with.... hmmm... stove bolts, adjustable from below? Provision for horizontal and vertical realignment seems in order here. Like everything else, the model will be affected by temperature, humidity and time. If I'm going to put in the effort, I want it to last.

There's another consideration here... one almost too dark to contemplate... and yet it must be said. If a random child or cat hits a span section, it should come off without destroying the towers.

Much to think about.

Thanks Gerard

Mac B.

Reply to
polar bear

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