Grades for Shays

Since I live in logging country I thought it would be nice to have a HOn3 logging RR in the mix. It could be a mining RR as well. I was planning on using a Shay. What was the maximum grade they could handle?

Kirk

"Moe, Larry, the cheese!", Curly

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Reply to
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
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Shays regularly worked on grades as steep as 10% ... still, don't use those everywhere. Shay or not, the steeper the grade the less you could pull or push, so the very steep grades were avoided whenever possible.

Above a 10% grade and even a Shay couldn't move a useful load. That's where logging 'inclines' came in, using a donkey engine to winch the cars up and down. In most extreme terrain, skylines were used, slinging everything, even locomotives, across the valleys suspended on cables.

Dan Mitchell ==========

'Capta>

Reply to
Daniel A. Mitchell

No, I won't approach 10%. I was at 5.6% for one grade. That should be fine as the space is limited so there wouldn't be many cars to pull.

Kirk

"Moe, Larry, the cheese!", Curly

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Reply to
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan

Dan said: Shays regularly worked on grades as steep as 10%

That's a figure I've heard as maximum too. I ran across reference to a Rousseau Loop loggin line, said to have 20% grade. Is this guy just blowing smoke?

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Reply to
Corelane

Koch's "Steam and Thunder in the Timber" indicates logging lines had grades up to 16%, but he implies these were primarily early tram-roads (where the rails were wooden logs), and that (steel) rail lines rarely exceeded 10%. A copy of a Heisler advertising booklet indicated Heislers were providing good service on lines with grades up to 13%.

Koch makes the point that in virtually all logging situations, the steep grades were only encountered by trains of empties going back up hill, and that the loads were being hauled down hill out of the mountains. This would suggest that quarry or open pit mining operations, where the loads are pulled uphill, would avoid grades approaching 10%.

And for a model RR, we rarely add and remove loads to our open cars, so we are in effect hauling the maximum load in both directions, and thus we should avoid grades in the 10% range.

Finally, from a mechanical standpoint, an HO Shay is essentially identical to a geared down Diesel - an Athearn with Ernst gears if you will - so don't design a branchline for Shays any differently than you would for a line powered by Diesels. (Actually, a model Shay is mechanically less effective than a geared down Diesel because the Diesel gear train usually has better contours than the open Shay gears, and for MDC Shays, is not encumbered by all the redundant decorative gear trains.) GQ

Reply to
Geezer

I've heard as high as 13% (including the effect of a curve) at Cass.

Before you try to build such a grade, take a piece of wood and put about

6ft of track on it. Raise one end to get your planned grade and see how many cars you can pull.

A friend and I tried that experiment before building such a grade on his RR and found that a practical maximum for an HO brass Shay on nickel-silver track is about 8%-8.5%. The engine was weighted and tuned to run very well. The rail and wheels were new and clean. At 10%-11% the engine would slide down the hill by itself. Different materials give different coefficients of friction. Unless your using steel on steel or traction tires, you probably won't get the same results as the prototype.

We built the grade at 8% ( 8.5% in one place) and are quite satisfied. The engine (Cass #12) will take 4-5 cars and the smaller engines will handle 3-4 cars.

Reply to
Fred Lotte

Well, that may be true from a mechanical standpoint, but the Bachmann Shays will regularly out-pull any diesel I've come across (except possibly the P2K SD60), including those old Athearns with Ernst gears. Even on grades. We had one at a show recently pulling 25-30 well-weighted 100 ton coal hoppers without issues, and (due to the floor) we had about a half percent, unresolvable grade on one side. Prototypical? Well, under limited circumstances, yes. (I'm not sure what the C&O 150 ton Shays were rated at coming out of Cabin Creek....) Normal? No. But the crowd liked it. :) But again, I'm certain it wouldn't do as well in the 10-13% grade range. You might find that it actually starts to go backwards as soon as the wheels turn and the amount of friction between the rail and the wheel decreases. 'till later....

-- Andrew Cummings | snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

Reply to
Andrew Cummings

There is a switchback at the tourist Roaring Camp and Big Trees Railroad just outside Felton CA which is over 10%. They have two Shays and a Heisler that regularly take trains over this.

The line has balloon loops at either end so it must take careful firing to keep water over the firebox crown sheet in the downhill direction.

But remember that in logging days the uphill trains would be empty, or just carrying supplies. All the heavy loads would be downhill.

Reply to
Christopher A. Lee

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