Model Railroad Philosophy: What constitutes Scratch Building?

As long as we're into philosophy ...

Is major kitbashing scratch-building?

Norm

Not in my mind. Check the NMRA web site under contests for definitions for what they consider scratch building.

Howard R Garner NMRA Lifer

Absolutely not. Kitbashing is kitbashing, no matter how extreme, and is based on starting with existing walls or wall sections (in the case of a structure) which are being modified to a new purpose. Scratchbuilding is a different animal altogether, where the modeler's starting point is nothing but basic structural parts such as boards, timbers, structural members (angles, beams, columns), etc.

It's a comparison similar to that of purchasing a modular home and somewhat re-arranging the sections or constructing a stick-built house from the foundation up yourself.

CNJ999

No doubt this will start something Scratch-building involves using detail parts that are purchased as well as making your own - maybe. There are specific guidelines set out by the NMRA that define what percentage of a model, kitbashed or otherwise, must be built from raw materials in order to qualify as scratch-built. The short answer is yes. The long answer is that it must meet certain criteria to qualify as an official, NMRA sanctioned scratch-built model. It depends on whether or not you want to use the official NMRA criteria to fit your definition. If you want to be recognized and published in the hobby press in the USA, you will conform to the requirements. From what I have seen and derived on my own, they are even stricter in western Europe and the Antipodes than we are in the States and Canada. There are some Brits who maintain that you must make all your own castings and such to qualify. The only way the question can be answered is to refer to the governing authority under which you will be exhibiting your model or making your claim. It is not something that is open to opinion- unless- you are un-sanctioned. In that case, it doesn't matter anyway. One opinion is as good as another.

What was interesting and head scratching for judges some time ago was; A person who bought a FSM kit. He put the kit in a sack and bought wood parts. He then used the plans and the wood parts to build with. A total scratch built building. So insued a large discussion? (shouting match) as to whether this was a kit or a scratch built building. If I remember correctly as he had the original parts and the receipt for the wood it had to be considered "scratch".

snipped-for-privacy@nac.net (Dave Rutan), In a message on 5 May 2004 10:42:07 -0700, wrote :

DR> Ben, DR> DR> In my opinion, scratchbuilding can be defined as building anything DR> that isn't a pre-made kit.

Right. There are 'extremists'/'purests' around though. I 'scratch built' a bridge. I did use pre-made plastic structural shapes. I am sure there are modlers out there who would insist on making the structural shapes themselves from scratch.

DR> DR> Dave DR> -- DR> From: Benjamin Barby ( snipped-for-privacy@sympatico.ca) DR> Subject: Model Railroad Philosophy: What constitutes Scratch DR> Building? DR> Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad DR> Date: 1999/03/10 DR> DR> DR> I was just wondering how 'scratch' something had to be for it to be DR> scratch DR> built. DR> DR> I wanted to scratch build a car, so I went and bought some nice metal DR> trucks DR> and wheelsets for it, but someone told me that it wasn't scratch build DR> because I purchased parts. So I went to make my own; I got some metal DR> stock DR> and just as I was about half way through, someone told me it wasn't DR> scratch DR> because someone had manufactured the metal. So I went out and got DR> some ore DR> and smelted my own metal, cast it in to ingots, & rolled it down into DR> stock DR> and sheets I could use. OK so far. (There was some grumbling though, DR> because I hadn't made my own lathe) DR> DR> Then I went out and purchased some scribed wood to use on the car DR> itself. DR> Welll, you can't do that, it's purchased; someone else did the work; DR> so I DR> went and bought plain stock and scribed it myself. Not good enought. DR> So I DR> went and purchased a 2x4... Same thing. So off I went to the forest, DR> and DR> chopped down my own tree, dragged it home and started to dress the DR> wood, DR> when someone informed me that it didn't count, because someone else DR> had DR> grown the tree. So I took a seed, went outside, planted it..... DR> DR> Years later I was informed that my efforts were in vain because even DR> though DR> I had put the seed in the ground, someone else had created the seed. DR> Not DR> only that, but it wasn't me who personally made the seed grow, it was DR> God, DR> so it didn't count any way..... DR> DR> So I'm wondering, how scratch does something have to be before it's DR> scratch DR> built? DR> DR> Benjamin ;-) DR> DR> I've got waaaay too much time on my hands! :-) DR> DR> -- DR> Benjamin Barby DR> DR> snipped-for-privacy@bbqsympatico.ca DR> DR> Please eat the tasty Barby-Q provided in the e-mail address! That way DR> I DR> don't have to eat the spam later! :-) DR>

\/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: snipped-for-privacy@cs.umass.edu

|| snipped-for-privacy@deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153

The NMRA allows structural shapes as raw material. Building them yourself may get you more points.

Howard NMRA Lifer and Contest Judge

I avoid the whole problem by using the word scratchbashing :)

More power to them. I keep getting told that almost nobody is building anything from scratch anymore. Kitbashing sounds like it's still pretty healthy though.

Dave

More power to them. I keep getting told that almost nobody is building anything from scratch anymore. Kitbashing sounds like it's still pretty healthy though.

Dave

More power to them. I keep getting told that almost nobody is building anything from scratch anymore. Kitbashing sounds like it's still pretty healthy though.

Dave

No - the "scratch" of scratch building refered/refers to the marking out or scratching on sheet metal. However, if you build your base model and add over the counter details then you're still scratch building. The use of proprietry motors, gears and wheels is also ok. There's a fine line between! :-)

Hmmm, but you buy ready made windows and doors, bricks and kitchen fittings ...?

Regards, Greg.P.

Personally, I have always let the contractor build the thing. Cant find one

1/2 tall, though.

Jim Stewart

Ask the dog - he always has plans to scratch!

Jon Miller posts:

I thought story in this response particularly interesting since I followed the same practice in building an FSM piledriver for an NER NMRA model contest. The judges never even blinked an eye nor posed any question about the model being in fact considered scratchbuilt.

Incidentally, I'd regard building many of FSM's kits as essentially scratchbuilding projects since they are sometimes nothing but piles of stripwood accompanied by detailed instructions. Other more modern AMB, Bar Mills, etc. laser kits are, however, far, far less along the lines of "scratchbuilt" items than those by FSM.

CNJ999

It is actually at the NMRA web site under "Achievement Program."

Scratchbuilt: To be considered scratchbuilt, a model must have been constructed by the applicant without the use of any commercial parts except: Motor Gears Drivers and wheels Couplers Light bulbs Trucks Bell Marker and classification lights Valve gear Car brake fittings Basic wood, metal and plastic shapes

The term "scratchbuilt" carries the implication that the builder alone has accomplished all of the necessary layout and fabrication which establish the final dimensions, appearance, and operating qualities of the scale model.

A "piledriver" is also the name for a drink consisting of vodka mixed with prune juice. :-)

Dieter Zakas Constipation, NJ

scratchbuilding projects since they are sometimes nothing but piles of stripwood accompanied by detailed instructions< One of the reasons that points have been shifted from the old days. There are now more points to be earned with prototype accuracy!