Nitpicking

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Richard P. Kubeck) wrote in news:11381-3F570998- snipped-for-privacy@storefull-2353.public.lawson.webtv.net:

I don't care if I'm following prototype operations - I'm having FUN!

When there's only two on the engine, and you arrive somewhere the turnouts are thrown by hand, SOMEBODY has to get off the engine and throw them. Or operate the ESML to get a release for a ground frame.

Mark.

You don't work for a major railroad do you?

It's not at all uncommon practice for an engineer to get off the locomotive to line a switch ahead of himself. In many cases it's the only way to expedite moves. A GOOD engineer isn't too lazy to get off the engines to help. Of course you have some that feel that their butt becomes married to their seat once it touches it...but there are many cases where engineers on the railroad I work for get down to line switches, cut the engines off from cars, etc...

Let me give you a good example.

On the line I work for, we have passing tracks in several locations where we often set off 50 car grain trains. Those passing tracks are built to hold right at 50 cars, not to mention rules say you must ride shoves in. Grain trains only have engineer and conductor...no brakemen, so if the conductor is riding the shove into the siding, then who's there to cut the motors off, go back to the mainline, and clear up the switch and derail in the siding? You guessed it...the engineer. It's very prototypical as well as common for the engineer to do this, and generally you are operating with written permission to make a reverse movement on the mainline (on the NS it's called a

23-A), so the engineer can come back down the mainline and pick the conductor up, to keep him from having to walk a half mile back.

Of course, as I said, you do have some engineers who don't even offer to do this...but it IS in the job description!

NS also has a setup like that in Georgia. I work for NS, not on the Georgia division, but rather on the Piedmont division (but we are home terminaled out of Atlanta, and work between there and Greenville, SC.

We sometimes operate to East Point, GA, which is on the GA Division, so we have to read some of their operations bulletins and superintendent notices. I recall reading one awhile back that discussed activating a particular switch by tuning to a certain frequency and using the radio tone keypad to change the alignment of the switch before approaching it. Off hand, I don't recall which city it was in...might have been Forest Park, GA. We don't go that far, so I've never seen the switch, and we don't have any such switch setups on our end.

What is an ESML? Or for that matter, a "ground frame"?

You're just now figuring out that there are aspects of model railroading that differ from the prototype? Yeah, that's a real newsflash, all right; thanks for sharing.

Yeah, you're right -- having a gigantic hand appear from the sky to move the switch is much more realistic. Happens all the time on the prototype.

Ah, WebTV. Yes, that explains a great deal.

sure it is...we're now Remote Control Operators, since we're not sitting in the engineers seat of the locomotive. Operating it with a hand held "beltpack" (only smaller)...just like the real thing ;^)

About the same time a conductor will try to swerve to avoid a grade crossing collision!!

That is EXACTLY what was reported by the imbeciles at the Orange County Register about ten years ago when some yutz drove around the gates in Santa Ana, California, and got nailed by a southbound Amtrak.

Actually, the line running down 6th Street is NS, not CSX.. Sorry

Mark, you need to translate that on this group, for ERS reads 'Electric Switch Lock' and for Groundframe read 'Switchstand' They do the same job although physically different and a groundframe can operate several switches. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.

"Keith Norgrove"

Isn't a groundframe better described as an very small interlocking frame, usually two, three or four levers, usually out in the open, and located, as the name says, on the ground?

-- Cheers Roger T.

of the Great Eastern Railway

What country are we referring to here. Mine's UK practice, yours may differ.

In UK practice, anything like you describe would have to be interlocked. Points/switches/turnouts, signals etc. Even on goods (freight) only lines there was always some form of interlocking whenever there were conflicting movements on running lines.

-- Cheers Roger T.

of the Great Eastern Railway

The original post was New South Wales practice, when an explanation was called for I tried to translate it into US terminology to explain the function even though the form is different.

The essential function here is to allow hand operation of points after an electric lock is released by the controlling safety system. The essential interlocking is in the circuitry to the electric lock, there will be little or none in the actual ground frame and definately none in a switchstand. The details of the equipment are different the logic of the function is essentially the same.

And yes, the US version will involve more walking or riding on the footsteps. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.

Thanks, Keith. I wasn't entirely certain about the "translation".

All the best,

Mark.

Convenient? This IS the railway we're talking about, isn't it?

NSW practice is for the groundframe to be interlocked as well as the ERS. Note the different coloured levers in the examples quoted - blue for locking, black for points, red for signals. Even groundframes within yard limits at most locations usually have a locking lever, though it may be left normally unlocked.

At other locations not provided with an ERS the frame may be locked by a key staff, guards's key, or drawer lock.

Depends on where you are. Many unattended crossing loops in NSW had two ground frames, one at each end of the loop, with a long walk in between. Or they will be dotted all over a large area of a yard.

All the best,

Mark.

When my Grandfather was Engineer, on the 'real thing' back in the 1930's, he ALWAYS got the job of 'throwing the switch'!

David.

In the U.S., an "electrically-locked switch" is one that has a big box which contains circuitry and a timer. When the padlock is opened, the switch lever cannot be operated until a timer runs down (indicated when a light shines atop the case), allowing one to depress the keeper and line the switch. This is so the signals protecting the entrance to the block are properly set. Where I work, such switchstands are usually found within the limits of an interlocking.

Another related item is mainline handswitches, i.e., those not under the control of a dispatcher. When a crew receives permission from the dispatcher to "open up" a particular switch, a second rod connected to a separate box will move when the points move, to "knock down" the signal at the entrance to that block.

Dieter Zakas

He was driving a GG1.

Jim Stewart

We don't have a light on our time boxes on the NS...you just wait for a little "click" sound, and look inside the box to see if the little red "locked" indicator has changed to a white "unlocked" indicator. Atleast, this is how it is on the Southern Railway portion of the NS...it could be different on the NW or Conrail portions. These types of switch setups are all over the NS, not just at interlockings. Any non-dispatcher controlled switches that branch off any mainline will have the time-box setup.