Re: Sound in LL P2K engines

> If not aware of it by now note that many P2K engines will have sound in > their next release. See the German "All American Trains" site for listings.

Life Like Canada (Canadian Hobbycraft) has announced a new run of RS-18 diesels, some with sound for $100.00 extra.

Bob Boudreau Canada

Reply to
Railfan
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Can't say that I'm very impressed by these recent announcements considering that these sound-equipped diesels will be listing at around $250 - a ridiculous price for such an item. This is half the price of many low-end computer systems.

CNJ999

Reply to
JBortle

considering

Reply to
larry madson

What price were you expecting?

Larry Madson

considering

Reply to
larry madson

Reply to
Jon Miller

Right on, everyone wants something for nothing anymore.

Larry Madson

Reply to
larry madson

It is a low end computer system.

Paul

Reply to
Paul Newhouse

That's nothing new Larry. Everyone has always wanted to pay less for everything than the asking price. Nothing has changed, nothing is new. When Varney kits were $25.00, that was too much. If you could get one today for $180.29, that would still be too much. Fact of life

-- Ed Davis snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net

Reply to
Ed M Davis

Well, yeah, but remember what a low-end computer cost ten years ago. The current low prices wouldn't have been there without demand. We'll let the early adopters invest in the R&D until they get good enough and cheap enough for the rest of us.

Jeff Sc. Intel, Ga. 80486

Reply to
not.fishplate

I wasn't making reference to a normal discount, what I was making reference to is the thought that some persons think electronics for the hobby can be priced the same as consumer electronics. Our volume does not even come close to the volume of consumer electronics, therefore the price is higher.

Larry Madson

Reply to
larry madson

And I remember when an 80486 was a high end machine. Heck, I remember when the Amiga was a high end machine.

-- Ed Davis snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net

Reply to
Ed M Davis

Well, _very_ low end. No case, no power supply, no keyboard, no fan[s], no hard disk, no CD/DVD, no floppy disk, no video adapter, not much of an operating system.

What you're paying for (besides for being an early adopter) is the programming, the sound software and whatever level of integration there is with the motor control circuitry, and the mfgr's opportunity to get well off you before there is much competition.

Reply to
Steve Caple

Some [not me] still claim it is

Reply to
Steve Caple

I don't know, I'd say it's quite a bit or work that goes into sound decoders. There's very little market for them by any definition, and in electronics the only way they get cheap is by selling huge numbers. To think that a modern engine costs little more than the cost of inflation and now includes incredible detail and (decent?) sound, it's pretty amazing. Of course, paying $250 per engine still seems like a lot to me, and I'd only get a couple of units with sound due to my limited budget.

Marc

Reply to
M G

A question to all members of rec.models.railroad: How much WOULD you be willing to pay for sound in these locos? (Froggy, you are excused from this question because you have done a fine job of stating your case.)

If the loco is right and the sound is appropriate for the engine, I would pay the extra $100.

Reply to
Mark Mathu

Thanx Mark. I can use the break BUT...........I think I will comment here anyway. Y'all need to know that I am not opposed to sound under all circumstances. Like everything else, sound on a model railway has its place. Agreed? I had sound once. Thirty-some-odd years ago and I paid a dear sum for it. Check an index and see how much 375 1972 dollars would be today. A bunch! But it was beautiful sound; music, not noise. I had an O scale Max Gray Berkshire that had a speaker in the tender and it would make you weep to hear the whistle moan and wail. Oh ! It was fine. I installed a couple of units in HO scale locomotives with outstanding results as well. The steam sounds were fine as well. Everything was synchronized to the speed of the drivers in such a clever way that as the loco went faster the cutoff would shorten as well. I was impressed then and still am today.

NOW

If I could get that kind of sound today I would go for it, but I want music, not noise. If you can sell me really good stuff, I will buy it, but it has to be really good. So far no one has managed to even come close to the original granddady of all model sound units.

Mark, if you can sell me a unit that ~really~ sounds like a DL-109 -both 539T engines- and has a horn that can be programmed to sound like a well-maintained super typhon, or other as may be appropriate, playing the same chord as the appropriate prototype; and if you can give me the same quality of sound that I got back in

1972, then I would not balk at $100.

I only bitch because all we can get at this point in time is QSI and Soundtraxx crap.

OK, OK.......I STILL would not play the sound during an operating session, but I would enjoy it operating solo.

Reply to
Froggy

"> A question to all members of rec.models.railroad:

$100.00 over "regular" price would not be hard to take. But still , in limited amounts. I have been at layouts with 6-10 sound equipped engines under power at one time, and frankly, its annoying. When you try to have a conversation, you wind up yelling more than talking. Thank God for DCC function 8!! (that function kills sound units!) chooch

Reply to
chooch

F, allow me to introduce the 12th commandment (right after the 11th, "Thou shall not get found out"):

Thou shall not limit thyself to NA products!

Consider ESU's Loksound decoder

formatting link
and the ability to record your own sound files into the decoder. If you have a recording of a DL109, nirvana awaits... There is a downside to this one, it is not capable of playing more than one "extra" sound at a time - you can have the bell, or the horn/whistle, but not both. And you cannot "play" the horn. But a mate just fitted one into a DJH 38 class Pacific, and it does sound nice.

Steve Newcastle Aust

Reply to
Steve Magee

I agree with most of your observations.

Item (1) will be very hard to do. The physics of a model train and a prototype train are VERY different. The model and prototype locomotives do NOT 'load' for the same reasons or in the same manner. Model trains are dominated by friction forces. Prototype trains are dominated by inertia (mass) forces. These things do NOT 'scale', as we've discussed many time before in this newsgroup. It usually comes down to the well known "square-cube" discrepancies. While the model WILL work harder going up a grade, that's about the ONLY similarity in performance. Drifting or coasting, 'downgrade' performance (with or without brakes set), dynamic braking (if applicable), and the behavior of the train on short grades with one or more 'humps' under the train will be VERY different.

So, the sound of the loco under load will have to be synthesized somehow, or placed totally under the control of the operator. Current or voltage sensing will NOT give prototype-like responses. The actual loads on the model locomotive being very different than that on the prototype.

Item (2) can sometimes be done now, at least as to duration and sequence of whistle blast. Some practice with the controller is necessary to get the timing right. That's hard to do with the IR and radio wireless links, as they impart an additional time delay. Also true that you can't 'throttle' the whistle to produce 'signature' blasts.

Items (3) and (4) are getting much better in HO as the value of decent speakers, good baffling and multiple speakers becomes obvious. Still, a tiny speaker will likely never sound as good as a larger one. An argument for O-gauge, or even G-gauge ... or 1:1 scale?

Dan Mitchell ==========

SleuthRaptorman wrote:

Reply to
Daniel A. Mitchell

files into the decoder< QSI who puts the sound decoders in some of the engines is now polling, on the QSI site, as to would this be a salable item. In other words a decoder you could record on (downloadable files) except we would have US type sounds, not European!

Reply to
Jon Miller

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