The Union Pacific's annual shareholders meeting is just about one week away ? April 16, 2004.
formatting link
And I'm sticking with my call ? the plan to make a stink about the licensing program at the meeting won't happen -- it was no plan at all.
Mark Mathu wrote...
J>>> When do those beatings start?
>>
>> Actually there is a plan in place to make a big point of it
>> at the stockholders meet scheduled (4 months from now????).
>> Many have bought a share of stock to make this point.
>
> The U.P. shareholder?s meeting is just 16 weeks away; how is the plan coming
> along? Is there a deadline for getting the issue on the agenda? >
>> And for those who say it won't happen. I remember from my
>> one share of GM stock (all the paper I received) that all the
>> debate, printing of positions, etc. at every meeting was
>> instigated by a holder of one share. They have to do it and
>> owning one share can create all sorts of hell with a company if
>> it's wished to do so.
>
> That would be me who says it won?t happen.
Hi Mark, I do notice there is no report of the monies they are making with this enterprise. They do list it as a specific item under Media on the site. If it's deserves a mention there I wonder why the vast income (and related expense) is not list!
You may end up being right on the meeting but that's not what I have heard.
Also of interest is the number of engines and cars between '98 and '02. Roughly 30K less freight cars but engine count the same. Interesting facts, a shrinking RR?
Actually, if you really want to embarrass UP management, you should ask them how they could possibly mess up their crew management so badly, why they don't have an effective operational risk management program, and why BNSF's stock consistently outperforms UP's stock.
That would be much more fun than criticizing the licensing agreements.
Of interest to home modelers who decorate their own rolling stock is that they are exempted from the UP licensing program. If you'd like to see a collection of GIF files which contain many of these UP logos, see the following page on UP's web site:
formatting link
There are some more at
formatting link
Ed in article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Jon Miller at snipped-for-privacy@inow.com wrote on 4/8/04 11:40 AM:
in article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Jon Miller at snipped-for-privacy@inow.com wrote on 4/8/04 11:40 AM:
They may not make enough to clear expenses on this program if there is are any full time employees dedicated to licensing administration and legal. Assuming that there were abuses of their logos in the past, or concern that they might all pass into the public domain without a licensing program, then if the license revenue just covers their costs, maybe it is justified from a business perspective. But it sure seems to annoy a lot of us, including the editorial writers for Model Railroading and Model Railroader.
Oh, well, I think we are stuck with it unless one or more of the model manufacturers cares to try to legally undo the licensing of especially the older, fallen flag logos. With Ups newer logos, they apparently have an absolute right to license them or to refuse to allow their use.
the licensing of especially the older, fallen flag logos.< Actually they have _lost_ the cases on some of the fallen flag logos etc. but I'm not sure how many. I have seen two for sure. Also there are many manufactures who are just ignoring them. I not sure how to read that meaning I'm not sure how active UP has been going after them. Some have public stated to me their attitude is "see you in court" but when it really gets to that we will see. So far it seems UP is just ignoring the ones who are ignoring them.
Or you could do what the shareholders of our Channel Tunnel Company just did and vote the whole Board out. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.
in article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Jon Miller at snipped-for-privacy@inow.com wrote on 4/8/04 12:44 PM:
They ignore the licensing program at their peril. "Willful infringement" of copyrights, trademarks, etc., is EXPENSIVE., like hundreds of thousands of dollars plus legal fees. As long as UP has a licensing program and/or wishes to preserve their rights of ownership, they are obligated to stop infringers when they know about them.
Don't be ridiculous. It's simple what's going on with all of the railroads. More and more, they lease freight cars. For example, let's take BNSF. They service a lot of grain elevators where I live. Sure, they own quite a few hoppers with their name on them, but they also lease a lot of them too. The grain trade is somewhat seasonal. Lots of demand to ship grain out in some months, then the elevators are emptied until the next harvest. If you own your own hoppers they will sit around on sidetracks for months. These things cost $40,000 apiece from what I've been told, so tens of thousands grain cars is a LOT of money sitting around. So, doesn't it make sense to lease cars when you need them? The fact that the number of UP engines has stayed the same should tell you they are pulling at least the same amount of freight. A case could be made that they are even gaining since the newer engines they have bought are even more powerful and can pull more cars. I think UP is very, very smart to get rid of rolling stock and just lease what they need, as they need. it. Right?
And be certain to vote against Directors 1 & 3. They've pillaged other companies its only a matter of time before they get this one too. Not to mention how #1 sold out the D&RGW name in favor of SP. Puke puke puke.....
How do YOU figure that? BNSF has outperformed UP by about 2:1 over the past three years.
BNSF (NYSE:BNI) Price on April 9, 2001 = $29.10 per share Price on April 8, 2004 = $32.21 per share Dividends = 9 X $0.12 + 3 X $0.15 = $1.53 Change in value = $3.11 + $1.53 = 5.3% + 10.7% = 15.9%
UP (NYSE:UNP) Price on April 9, 2001 = $55.01 per share Price on April 8, 2004 = $57.05 per share Dividends = 6 X $0.20 + 3 X $0.23 + 2 x $0.30 = $2.49 Change in value = $2.04 + $2.49 = 3.7% + 4.5% = 8.2%
Look at the dividends you got for each dollar of stock - BNSF dividends are over twice what UP dividends will yield on a 'per dollar' of stock basis. You cannot compare 'share for share' as the two stocks are valued at a different dollar amount....
BNSF (NYSE:BNI) Price on April 8, 2004 = $32.21 per share Dividends = 9 X $0.12 + 3 X $0.15 = $1.53 Change in value = $3.11 + $1.53 = 5.3% + 10.7% = 15.9%
UP (NYSE:UNP) Price on April 8, 2004 = $57.05 per share Dividends = 6 X $0.20 + 3 X $0.23 + 2 x $0.30 = $2.49 Change in value = $2.04 + $2.49 = 3.7% + 4.5% = 8.2%
That's 1.53/32.21 or .0475 cents per $ invested in BNSF versus 2.49/57.05 or .044 cents per $ invested in UP.
That's a meaningless analysis. UP could split 4 for 1, would that make them a 4 times better investment? And then twice as good as BNSF? I think not since their dividend per share would, probably, get cut
4 for 1.
What is your return on investment? For every dollar invested what do you get back. BNSF is about 8% better than UP, based on Mark's numbers.
Tax free Muni's are a better deal than either of the Railroads.
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.