douglas help

In stat mag there are companies advertising.

Martin P

Very likely the same as Douglas T35 parts (some nice person with a Hepolite or similar catalogue may be able to confirm) so you might get some joy from motorcycle spares suppliers.

NHH

Indeed, Douglas used this WW2 FT35 engine in T35 bikes after WW2 with minor modifications. Any Douglas motorbike supplier should be able to help, there is also an owners club.

Industrial are 600cc 450cc 540cc 630cc Motor cycles 348cc 596cc 500cc 584cc 750cc

All from Hepolite catalogues, 1952 and 1958.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

Ferraris Piston Service seem to be trade only these days, we used to frequent their main depot in Cricklewood.

Douglas 350cc are listed as motorcycles with 2.3937" bore or 60.80mm. 2 compression rings 1/16" thick and one oil scraper 3/32" thick, 1/8" on the later engines.

Hepolite MP.7755 are the compression rings Hepolite MSS.7756 are the early scraper rings Hepolite MDO.8314 are the later 1/8" rings.

There is no 350cc Industrial Engine listed in any of the three catalogues that I have.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

Interesting. I wonder if the FT35 never made it into the after market catalogues as it wasn't a commercial, ie civilian, product? I know we have speculated before as to whether Douglas already had their next generation motorcycle engine on the drawing board and pressed it into service for the war effort, or if it was initially designed as a stationary unit and then adapted for the post-war motorcycle range.

NHH

Hepolite list all types of engines, commercial/civilian and military (which were commercial/civilian before they became 'military".

The other factor is whether Douglas took supplies from AE exclusively and didn't let Hepolite in the door, and when did Douglas actually pack up manufacturing?

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

Been a while...

It seems the latter: ".....But the machine announced in the motor cycle press of September, 1945, was a very different matter indeed. The engine was a transverse 348 cc overhead-valve flat-twin, direct coupled to a four-speed gearbox with final drive by chain. Full pivoted ­fork rear suspension was incorporated, controlled by a longitudinal torsion-bar spring at each side, enclosed within the frame cradle tubes...... Carries on: "To the public, the Douglas appeared to be a totally new design, one of the first such to appear on the post-war market. In fact, the engine was basically one that had been designed in wartime, to power portable generator plants. The designer was George Halliday (who, also, was the patentee of the torsion-bar springing system)." Great British Motor Cycles of the 50s - Bob Currie

Who, incidentally, was one of the first owners of the new model.

Tom

Wow who thought this ng was quite? many thanks for the help FPS are indeed a trade only outlet these days - mainly suplying to other factors But they dont seem to keep old catalogues - something I try to do (I work for a factor in Hull) And now I have some part no.s I can hopefully obtain the rings and re assemble the engine.

One other question The magneto seems to have no room for a condensor - I have been told that it may be in the windings. can anyone confirm this? the mag is a BTH md2 thank you all again Julian

The industrial engines listed are from the 1950s SV range. The FT35 and the T35 motorbike engine are the same internally, the owners club should know more fine detail such as different carbs and mag.

The condenser is fitted internally behind the plate holding the points and rotates with it. Strange looking beast - probably unobtainium. Beware that the mag can be fitted 180 deg out, remove one of the output terminal assemblies an check that the brass section of the rotor is pointing to the cylinder that is at top of compression.

BTW, these engines have a bit of a reputation for difficult starting but they will go if wound quickly.

I believe that the only bits that will swap directly from the T35 to the motorcycle are the pistons, rings, conn rods & big end shells. Although it looks alike, most of it is different & this explains why the WW2 Avro Lancaster APU based on a Triumph twin (I really would like one of those if anyone knows of one) has had such a poor survival rate & the T35's are - well, not ten a penny perhaps, but certainly seven for sixpence.

The Triumph generator engine heads, barrels, pistons & all will swap straight onto any eight stud Speed Twin crankcase & are still much sought after for that very reason.

Useless fact: The T35 was part of a generating set which ran continuously ( didn't dare stop it no doubt!) on top of the Great Pyramid for months at a time during the late war years.

Like the PU8, there are a surprising number about the place (I've got one) but you never see them at rallies. Are they thirsty brutes like the PU8 - or is it that they are as hard to start as legend has it?

Kim.

Not quiet, just nothing much to say until the right button is pressed!

Thanks for that Tom, you have indeed answered a question which has bothered me for some while. The sad thing is that I'm pretty sure that very volume is lurking somewhere on either my or my father's book shelves!

Harking back to previous discussions on this matter, I still believe the engine must have been drawn up with some thought to motorcycle use. According to Pat Knight's A-Z, the FT35 was rated at 4-8hp depending on speed. The 80 Plus and 90 Plus versions of the T35 motorcycle produced around 25hp (legend has it that finished engines were dyno tested and anything over 25hp got stamped up as a 90!). There aren't many purely stationary/industrial units capable of a threefold increase in power without a major redesign and it certainly wouldn't be the only time an ostensibly military requirement was fulfilled with more than an eye to future civilian use - who said Heathrow airport? Wash your mouth out!

NHH

kimsiddorn wrote (snip):

I know I've said this before but it can still be the 'same' engine without necessarily sharing a single componant. Key thing is that when it was on the drawing board, enough 'meat' was left in the basic design to allow a substantial increase in power without altering certain key dimensional relationships. For instance, I'm pretty sure any attempt wring say 10hp out of a Norman T300 would be courting disaster!

NHH

I generally agree with Nick on this. The WW1 250cc ABC unit weighed 14lbs bare of pipework carb & mag & 29lbs running. Normally generating at 1,200 &

3,600 rpm using the Marconi alternator then in common Army service, the factory once ran one all night at 4,000 without a cooling fan and reportedly briefly up to 12,000! If true, it speaks volumes for it breathing abilities.

Regards,

Kim

"There aren't many purely stationary/industrial units capable of a threefold increase in power without a major redesign"

The above statement got me thinking, so treat this purely as a question, anyone know how much of a redesign the ohc Coventry Climax fire pump engine needed before it was fitted in to the Hillman Imp? A guy i once worked with raced an Imp and claimed it was relatively easy to treble the power output of one . My Dad also drove am Imp for about

20 years and he loved it, would go anywhere and always got him home from work in the snow, the only down side was you needed to keep a few head gaskets in stock.

Sorry for going slightly off topic.

Paul

As a former Imp Sport and Clan Crusader owner I am well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the Imp engine and you are right; the Covvy Climax FW engine is a stationary unit which proved amenable to some pretty serious tuning without going bang - if not in the Imp then in the original Lotus Elite and a variety of other sporting machines.

The Imp engine (derived ISTR from the FWMA) itself suffered somewhat from the work Rootes did to adapt it for their mass production ambitions. For instance they went to an open deck construction with cast-in liners for the block which lead to the appetite for head gaskets. If you intend getting serious power out of an Imp engine with any degree of reliability, you are in for some pretty expensive strengthening work such as wills rings up top and extra bracing with a nice thick plate between the crankcase and sump down below.

NHH

If you find your copy of FMCOF take note that as released originally, they were fraught and it took some major modifications before the bhp of the 80 Plus & 90 etc were attained, some 5 years later.

As for stationary engine bhp as against automotive bhp, locally, there would be 100+ 454 ci V8 engines driving wind machines for frost protection. Their rating is 130 bhp @ 2800 rpm, whereas as automotively, the same engine, with changed ancillaries etc, has had ratings of well over 400 bhp. Even at 130 bhp, they are not renown for longevity, so the rating was a trifle optimistic. Perhaps, 100 bhp would be a more ideal but then they wouldn't drive the machines at optimum rpm.

Tom