Hello All,
We are posting in the hope of some basic advice, which would be most gratefully received.
Is it realistic to consider using a steam device, to run a generator, (our minimum power requirement is 5KvA, 10KvA would be a perfect maximum), in terms of: Obtaining a steam device fit for regular work in the warmer months, the cost of such a device, insurance,safety certification, servicing, and safe operation of the device? Thanks in anticipation. Richard Bendall.
In terms of practicability, probably no, especially if you have to use it regularly, where the daily grind of maintenance and fuel would soon make it lose it's interesting aspects.
For an occasional use item, it would be fine and provide a nice distraction for you.
Peter
In message , snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk writes
See
I note that you say "travelling venue" in the subject - do I deduce that you are going to be operating some sort of public amusement or "ride"? If so, is the desire for steam power because it will be a "draw", or just because you like the idea? If the latter, then why not a diesel genset instead? Far more efficient and less costly to run/insure, etc., and can be just as nice to look at, depending on the set.
Chris Bedo posts here frequently and may well be best placed to advise on care and feeding of steam plant and the regulations attached thereto.
Regards
Pete
Hello Pete, Many thanks for the kind advice. We operate a music venue. The power is required to run a PA & other musical equipment & some lighting. The reason we are looking at alternative powers sources rather than a diesel genny is that many of the events we have traditionally attended now have a recycling/renewable power source demand. Most operaters are going for the solar option. We thought that steam, perhaps using some form of recycled material as fuel would: a. be novel. b. be supporting a neglected power source in terms of recycling/renewability. c. yes of course partly because, with little appropriate knowledge as yet, we liked the idea. The links suggested look very useful. We are off to the Horton Farm Vintage Weekend on Sat 30th to ask lots of pesky questions of Stationary engine operators there. Regards Richard.
Well seasoned timber will do, though you'll need a lot. Remember burning wood is "green", the CO2 released was taken from the atmosphere in the previous 50 years or less, unlike coal and oil were it was taken millions of years ago.
I was going to say that 10kVA is a lot of power for a small steam engine buts it's only 13hp ish. I have sneaky feeling that traction engines are of that order... What may well be the hard part is the regulation as your power demands go up and down.
Why not a diesel running on ecycled chip fryer oil? Considering efficiencies, the diesel would be far less polluting than a steam engine of comparable hp.
Tom
Unless it is scrap or driftwood could we leave the well seasoned timber to constructional use. If you need wood to burn then give some thought to a coppice crop which is renewable in much shorter timescale and apparently burns very well if you ensure the temperature is kept up high enough. ;>
Burning driftwood in a steel firebox is not a good idea due to the salt content. Recycling old manor houses is a better option.:-)
Tom
This takes me back many years as in the 1960's we stayed with a 70 year old Thatcher in Herefordshire. He had a coppice to supply him with the shoots to make the staples to hold the thatch in place. Does a coppice still have a valid reason for use?
-- Dave Croft . Warrington England
Thatcher in Herefordshire.
thatch in place.
Locally, we have quite a few eucalypt coppices for firewood. They grow that much faster than in the northern climes.
Tom
Thatcher in Herefordshire.
thatch in place.
Basket making
Cheers Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
Thatchers still use hazel and there are markets for hurdles and ethering rods, small uses as broom handles. The chief reason for maintaining coppice is that the habitat supports globally rare species, from bluebells to dormice.
There is little young, mixed coppice surviving but I still work hornbeam in the weald.
Arable short rotation coppice is a new crop aimed at getting farmer's out of food production, it will be interesting to see how it fairs now subsidies are no longer linked to production and, indeed, will be phased out. I doubt any asrc has been harvested profitably in britain.
AJH
Yup looks the cheapest, easiest method and legal.
The other straightforward conversion is to run on home brewed and distilled ethanol but I suspect C&E might take an interest. Commercial alcohols (methanol and surgical spirits??) are synthesised from natural gas I think.
These two uses of reciprocating ic engines could convert in the order of 20-40% of the input fuel into electricity.
Some early gas engines (Tangye at Amberley) ran on gasified anthracite and would no doubt work with charcoal. Other attempts to run on woodgas are fraught with problems of oil contamination and gooing up bits.
I suspect this would fall to about 14% conversion.
The Lucas apu ran quite well on woodgas but control is an issue and I have no idea what their useful working life is. The one we used also ran on dry sawdust but I think total operating experience only runs into tens of hours.
This was estimated to produce 11% conversion with 16% being possible with a purpose designed unit of similar size and operating pressure.
AJH
Hello Tom et al, Thanks for the advice. Bio-Diesel is a viable option, but also frowned upon by some in the green fraternity as a pollution source-but then even solar power requires batteries that cause a serious disposal problem. I have seen wood pellets advertised for use in burners for household heating & hot water systems.They are made of sawdust and other compressible waste wood. These would seem to be ideal. I have looked at the tiny power American website suggested. Their M engine has a 4000KvA generation capacity claim- as we could operate on 5KvA as a minimum, this type of engine, (slightly larger of course), seems appropriate. Its dimensions & weight seem to make it portable enough. The water requirement of 25lbs per hour is not neccessarily a problem. I would have to work out how many kilos per hour fuel would be required to see how "do-able" it might be. Of course my preference would be to see if there is anybody in the UK who produces, or who might produce, (from blueprints),a similar engine or at least those parts we could not manufacture ourselves. I suspect that it would be hellish expensive. The tiny power site offers a price of around £4,000 to £5,000,including a boiler,which does not seem a bad investment. Richard.
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.