A wagon question

Hello again, Some will know that I have been slaving away over a new DCC layout that incorporates a working sand loading system. All went well at the first
exhibition last weekend in Warwick and pictures can be found on the Oakamoor layout page of the CVMRD website ( http://www.cvmrd.freeserve.co.uk ).
I was loaned some extra wagons for the weekend, some short wheelbase hoppers that were produced by Mainline. However, it looks as they have now passed to Bachmann as cat number 37-502 shows a 24ton ore wagon in BR grey marked "sand". Just what I want.
Only confusion has crept in. I have been using the longer wheelbase Hornby R6124B - but this is marked at 20tons.
Is this a Tardis type thing and the smaller really does hold more ? Did wagons change to include their own weight as well as load, or is it simply a typing cock up on the Bachmann website?
Andy
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On Wed, 4 May 2005 11:03:52 +0100, "Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway
Andy,

It did depend on the density of the material the wagons were carrying. I believe iron ore was quite dense so you would get a heavy load in a relatively small wagon, whereas something like coke was much less dense and you would require quite a large volume wagon to carry the same weight of material.
Jim.
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It did depend on the density of the material the wagons were carrying. I believe iron ore was quite dense so you would get a heavy load in a relatively small wagon, whereas something like coke was much less dense and you would require quite a large volume wagon to carry the same weight of material.
Jim.
Well, yes, that makes sense now you explain it! I remember my grandfather asking me once when I was small, "which is heavier - a ton of feathers or a ton of rocks ?" Obvious -they're both the same but a different volume !
:-)
Andy
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"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept."
wrote

Likewise with the iron-ore tippler- exactly the same size as a 16t mineral, but carrying 10t more. The 13t sand tipplers were effectively a half-height mineral wagon. Brian
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Likewise with the iron-ore tippler- exactly the same size as a 16t mineral, but carrying 10t more. The 13t sand tipplers were effectively a half-height mineral wagon. Brian
Brian, You seem the man in the know about this subject (and I remember why - and I now have a class 24 as you suggested, just need to change the number!)
Am I right with all three wagon types then?
Andy
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"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept."
wrote

From what I remember of the line in 1977>82, the sand trains were normally the ex-iron-ore hoppers (almost, but not quite Bachmann type) with about one-third fitted, and a 'fitted head' which was normally a couple of ex-banana vans. However, photos taken a little earlier show sand tipplers, iron-ore tipplers and covhops as well. Can't say that I remember 21t hoppers, however. Brian
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On Wed, 4 May 2005 21:38:52 +0100, "BH Williams"

21 ton hoppers were used for sand traffic, some I think were even marked for it, also prestwins, which were marked on the ends.
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21 ton hoppers were used for sand traffic, some I think were even marked for it, also prestwins, which were marked on the ends.
Mike, I can't do the prestwin wagons as this would spoil the whole point of the layout, filling real sand into wagons from the tower. With prestwins, you don't see anything :-(
I'm not sure if I can manage a train with the banana vans also. I can only manage a bout 6 wagons at the most, although having a smaller wheelbase, i.e. the Iron Ore- which seem to be 10ft'ers I may be able to make some longer trains up (Limited by the loops and sidings).
What length wheelbase are the sand tipplers?
--
Andy Sollis
CVMRD
http://www.cvmrd.freeserve.co.uk - Home of the Churnet Valley Model Railway
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"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept."
wrote

9'0 w.b., so the same length as the iron-ore tipplers. Brian
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9'0 w.b., so the same length as the iron-ore tipplers. Brian
Thanks. Will look out for these and I think we can squeeze in some longer trains! Now - adding the guards van... That could throw my Dad with his shunting!!! :-)
Andy
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salv "Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept."

that
Oakamoor
hoppers
37-502
a
Would this be wet or dry sand? I once drove a lorry that was 16 tonnes overloaded because it had rained on its load of sacks of sand during the night, , a wagon made to carry wet sand could very well be smaller than one for dry and still carry a heavier load. Beowulf
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Would this be wet or dry sand? I once drove a lorry that was 16 tonnes overloaded because it had rained on its load of sacks of sand during the night, , a wagon made to carry wet sand could very well be smaller than one for dry and still carry a heavier load. Beowulf
Now, there IS a thought? No, it will be dry in this case (Won't go through the hole) although, some one tried to tell me at the weekend that it was stored wet and loaded wet in to the wagons? I find this hard to believe after all the sand that blew off the tops of these open wagons onto the line side. (Unless it was as it dried on the surface)
--
Andy Sollis
CVMRD
http://www.cvmrd.freeserve.co.uk - Home of the Churnet Valley Model Railway
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On Thu, 5 May 2005 17:44:19 +0100, "Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model

AFAIK the sand was dried before shipping, everything I have read on the subject suggests this was the norm with 'sand drying plant' being a standard feature. However the tipplers do not seem to have been covered so they would have had the same problem as the lorry. Bricks were a bit of a problem as well, loaded hot and dry into open wagons they would soak up a lot of water (when shipped on a coastal trading vessel if the hatch leaded it would sink the ship - they couldn't pump the water out as it soaked into the bricks) Dave Lowery (I think it was) did a small book on 'industrial modelling' which featured his Leighton Buzzard layout which was built round the sand plant (narrow gauge, 009), worth looking out for as there is little available on lineside industries (I hope to rectify that as time allows). Re bricks - the small brick works on the Madder Valley Railway at Pendon is a very neat little industry, shows what can be done in a small space.
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On Fri, 06 May 2005 19:46:16 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@notigg.not.no wrote:

PS I believe the 9' wb wagons would be 16' 6" over headstocks
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the Leighton buzzard sand trains used BR wooden 5 plank wagons until the early sixties, think they had special covers over the axle boxes. there was one abandoned until the late 80's in a field near Totenhoe lime works quarry labeled return to leighton buzzard....would have been diffuclt the train had been taken up....Tottenhoe lime works had the same tipplers lableled "Chalk"
wrote:

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wrote

one
through
line
It was Dave Rowe not Dave Lowery.
--

Regards

John




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On Sat, 7 May 2005 18:09:50 +1000, "John Nuttall"

'pologies, I stand, or rather sit, corrected. His other books in the series were pretty good as well.
Regards
Mike
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