DCC

Hi,
I was wondering if some of you could answer a question for me. I am starting plans to build a layout, I already have track plan and know what I want the layout to do (it's basically a goods yard with a loop doubling as a main line). Is it easier to build a layout with DCC from scratch or build the layout traditionally and the convert it to DCC?
Many Thanks In Advance Robin

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:46:03 +0100, "Robin Long"
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Build it DCC from the start, one of the DCC benefits is simplified wiring, no point to do the complex wiring if you don't need it. You can still do your testing with DC using just one train. Keith

Robin Long wrote:
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Go with DCCC from the get go. Why pay for wiring and toggle switches controllers and stuff like that only to trash it all when you convert?

Thank's for all your help you've convinced me. I've just to convine her indoor's now!!! :-)
Robin

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...
On the other hand building your own electronics can be rewarding in itself and in the case of my son a learning exercise at 8 Years old he can -
- solder wires to rail connectors - recognise a cicuit and spot a short - wire an LED and resistor in series - and know why he has to do this
... and one or two things besides.
My 7 year old daughter (who has a bit of a learning disability) isn't all that far behind, she can do practical but theory escapes her.
If daddy's train set was dcc then (a) daddy would be broke and (b) my little 'uns would learn beggar all - can't run before you can walk and all that.
And as a final point there is a lot to be said for building everything yourself, if it goes wrong you know how to fix it and providing you do the job properly it will do exactly what you want and not what someone else thinks you want.
Of course dcc does have plenty of advantages, electronics isn't everyone's cup of tea and most of all this is a very diverse hobby with different people wanting to do many different things. My point is simply that DC as opposed to DCC is neither necessarily obsolete nor unrewarding.

If daddy's train set was dcc then (a) daddy would be broke and (b) my little 'uns would learn beggar all -
But Chris, they would ! I'm sure they would have great fun trying to fit the LED's inside a loco and then wiring the chip up, ensuring the motor is isolated and not shorting ?
And I'm sure there would be a way around Daddy being broke..... We just haven't come across it yet! (But not all DCC is expensive, although I acknowledge it may not be cheap!)
Andy

"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept."
wrote
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Goes back to "trying to run before you can walk".
"Daddy what does this back box do?" "Erm ... well ..." long meaningless explanation
OTOH resisters slow the electricty if you use them this way or they can make it smaller if you use them this way. Diode ... well it's just like a "one way" sign it stops the electricty going the wrong way, capacitor ... it's like a tiny battery, transistot ... its like traffic lights, if you turn it on it lets the electricty go though it this way and if you use two together you can make it go really fast ... etc etc ... all the way up to TTL - at which point DCC becomes understandable.
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Me niether :-(
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Two identical engines, one chipped one not chipped ... what costs more? Probe and stud activating a points motor vs accessory decoder ... what costs more?
DCC prices may well be coming down but it's never going to be on a par with DC ... but as I say that is not to do DCC down it does a lot of things that DC can't do and so forth.

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Neither of these two methods will work on my garden railway since the point motors are air operated.

writes
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Would it be appropriate then to comment that your railway is operated by a bag of wind? :-)

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No it wouldn't.

writes
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You coming to the exebition at Langley next month? I'll be there both days this time round.

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Mayhap

Probe and stud activating a points motor vs accessory decoder ... what costs more?
But in all fairness, I never suggested you use an accessory decoder to work your points? It's an extra feature if your pocket will go that deep, and judging by prices, I think many DCC'ers must be wearing old policemen trousers that had the very long pocket for the truncheon ! :-)
I think your kids would grasp it very well and quite quickly.... Who's better at programming the video (assuming the children are allowed to do this yet?) :-)
Andy

"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept."
wrote
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No you didn't but it strikes me as only doing half a job if one aspect of your layout is dcc and one isn't.
That is one of the "great" things about dcc, flick a switch points change, signals show the correct aspect, conflicting movements are stopped and your route is set. Not just that, because after all this can be achieved with DC, but dozens upon dozens of of routes and movements can be set ... to do so on the same scale DC would require a diode matrix the size of coffee table or a very expensive black box stuffed full of ttl chips.
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My kids learn programing from all sorts of places all the time ... school in ICT lessons, video games ... "if I do this ... then this happens", litle home buit robot (came on the front of a magazine in about a trillion editions - well it seemed so at the time) ... so the railway is the practical ...

"Chris Wilson" wrote
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I converted the operation of my locos to DCC but as all the pointwork on my layout was already working perfectly adequately using conventional DC it seemed a waste of time changing, so I didn't.
I'm very happy with this arrangement, and won't be changing it.
John

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Chris, I do see your point. I very much doubt I will go to this length on my loft layout when I build it, which will be DCC still, due to the cost - £33 to control 6 points? Wow.... However, I must admit I have gone to this trouble (and expense) on my exhibition layout... Why, I don't know, cause although I can say it is DCC controlled, you still only see the point blade move and there are only 9 points on the 4 boards (10 if you count the one in the hopper that opens the valve from the silo to load the wagons!) and one of those is too close to a board joint to take a motor (I know, VERY bad planning!) and the route setting option is an absolute waste for an end to end single track branch line to be fair!
Come to think of it, why have I gone DCC ? Ah, I won the controller, I like the diesels having operating lights and look forward to spending my hard earned cash and fitting a sound unit to annoy the t*ts of the missus!
TTFN :-)
Andy

Chris Wilson wrote:
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There's nothing to stop you doing this with DCC.
See http://www.merg.org.uk/resources/dcc.htm
MBQ

Robin Long wrote:
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I would wire in sections as per DC as it will allow you easily add train detection in the future and make it easier to trace short circuits. What DCC makes simple is doing away with switching it does not always mean simplified layout wiring. And if you are transitioning an existing train fleet it will allow you to have some isolated sections to park your DC engines, not many of us can afford to convert all our train fleet to DCC at one go. If you are using electro frog points remember to isolate both joins to the crossing or frog in model railway terms as DCC does through more current out for short circuits, DC currents don't tend to so high.
Good luck and happy model railwaying
Chris

Hey all,
At the moment my railway is one of those that comes out after the kid's have gone to bed sort. But the eldest intrest in thomas is comming on now. I want to get a baseboard and start doing things propley. I'm just comming to the end of my designing phase now, thinking about how my layout is to be wired up when built. At present my loco fleet is not all that big and this is the sole rason that I am looking at DCC now and I'm working on the basis start as you mean to go on. I have been looking at the gaugemaster dcc system and the lenz system and certain that at some point I will start using DCC. Recently I actually paid notice to a bachman advert and saw there DCC system what puzzles me is as to why there setup appears to be cheaper and eaiser to use. I'm new to this forum and your responce to my first post has been brillient. Much thanks for your help Guys and Girls. I think for now I will work on getting the design/baseboard setup and track laid down and then come back to the wiring/dcc issue.
Thanks for all your help.
Robin

Robin Long wrote:
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Another system to consider is Digitrax see www.digitrax.com not so widely used in the UK but they do offer a relatively cheap entry level system main UK importer is http://www.scc4dcc.co.uk .
Chris