FA eBay One of only 125 Hornby NRM Evening Stars R330 Mint Boxed

"Graeme Eldred" wrote

Interesting comment from your eBay description:-

'Evening Star' was built at Swindon in 1960 (long after the early BR emblem went out of use) and emerged with the later BR coat-of-arms. To the best of my knowledge the prototype locomotive has never been graced with the early BR emblem and I wonder why Hornby chose to produce it in that fashion?

John.

In message , John Turner writes

Indeed - it does seem strange. Those are actually Pat's words, from his book. To be honest, it is only luck that I have the model, which I happened to purchase during a visit to the NRM about twenty years, without any thought concerning rarity.

snipped

I've seen one photo dated 12/5/61 of the tender attached to a 7F 0-8-0 sporting that early emblem, but I would hazard a guess that BR didn't consider it was worth a repaint at that particular date.

-- Steve

"Steve" wrote

That's not the issue - numerous locos carried the early emblem to their grave in the early to mid-60s, having never had the new coat-of-arms applied. Evening Star however was built in 1960 and carry the late crest from the outset.

John.

I'm guessing that Hornby had a batch of the tenders carrying the early emblem in the factory and just used these.

"John Ruddy" wrote

It wouldn't surprise me. Authenticity has never been a real issue with Hornby.

John.

Having said that, I think they are more aware of the need for authenticity now than they were then. I'd still like to see them retool some of the cheap 0-4-0's so they look better, though.

"John Ruddy" wrote

They're aimed purely at the toy market, so I doubt that will happen - they sell well enough as it is, although I hear where you're at.

John.

Do you mean it is not an issue because they are always authentic? For instance, I've looked at the particular eBay item in question, and on the box in the picture, it clearly says "A Hornby Authentic OO Scale Model". And this is a product that was said to be made especially for offer through the NRM? And they just used any old tenders that happened to be laying around?

I don't understand this. Are you telling us that we cannot rely on specific statements of authenticity made by both the manufacturer and the National Rail Museum?

And no-one before this has brought this to the attention of the model-buying public?

Cheers, Steve

It depends on how authentic you want it, I suppose. They are more authentic than the 4-4-2 version of the Flying Scotsman that Hornby put out in the 1930's, but not as authentic as an accurate detailed kit built model based on a specific example using many detailed photographs.

"Steve W" wrote

Gerraway .............. a company that will produce a GWR 'Hall' class in bright red livery, carrying the name 'Lord Westwood' and using Hornby's office phone number as the loco number cannot hardly be claimed to have authenticity at heart.

John.

To be fair, that was a "publicity" type of offering, rather than something anyone would want to run on a layout. Many companies will produce limited runs of their products altered to provide advertising.

Add Virgin/Civil Link/Railfreight Distribution/Redland/ARC Class 06 and the 'Mark 3B' DVT they put out in 2002 to that list too.

I recently found a pic of a 7F 0-8-0 with late crest on colliery duty in Lancashire. I am guessing it was repainted for one of the many enthusiasts' passenger excursions which were popular at the time and BR just left it that way.

(kim)

Ah, I get it now! It's "authentic" in the sense that it is an actual Hornby product, and not someone else's model pretending to be Hornby.

Cheers, Steve

Ahh... don't be such a sourpuss! They never claimed it was "authentic" and I expect many children brightened up when they received one of those for Christmas!

I have the companion "Polly"-style red tank with the silver dome, and still like to send it around the layout among the rather more drab and realistic stock from time-to-time....

(ab)

"ab" wrote

Oh, so the legend on the box 'Authentic OO-scale model' is totally meaningless then?

John.

(backpedals furiously)... well I, ummm, didn't realise that....

Still they could be claiming it's "Authentically OO-scale" I suppose... although given the back-to-back measurements of the wheels on Hornby stuff in the 1970s, even that might be open to quibbling... :-)

(ab)

"authentic"

wheels

quibbling...

There is no back-pedalling to do IMO!

It's still a scale model, just that the livery isn't, as some 12inch to the foot versions aren't 'authentic' when dressed up in "Thomas the Tank Engine" story liveries on preserved railways. Anyway, how many real steam loco's have bloody great electric (traction) motors in them, hardly 'Authentic' !..